Yeah, I saw that article but also don't pay for LSJ, if anyone does please let us know if there's anything noteworthy there. Hopefully there's no more delays.
I ponied up a dollar so I could read the artical, which seemed pretty confident about the construction beginning in the spring. It talked about the cost and the new design, which looks good. The artical also talked about the Lansing Media Center being built in the little brick '60s building next door which is now under renovation. I did not know that project had started.
Another artical talked about the proposed data center, the company reps. said that this will be a small sized data center not really useful for AI but for other uses, they said the center would use about the same amount of power as Wendy's across the street! It would not use water from the Grand River, provide the hot water for BWL steam customers, and be sound proofed to the standards of the neighborhood noise zoning. If they are to be believed it may be a good thing for Lansing.
I'm still not for the data center there at all, my point is that if they wouldn't let someone put a warehouse there, they shouldn't allow a data center. It belongs in an industrial area. IMO It's another "why did we pass form based code?" moment.
Honestly, the more I've heard on the data center, and discussions with an electrical engineer that does power distribution, the more I'm for it. Sure, it's not ideal but it's likely better than that spot is going to get for a long time, if not ever. It would definitely be an upgrade from that underutilized lot that is deteriorating. Honestly, a warehouse at this point would be an improvement there. This really isn't a prestigious part of downtown. Look at all the vacant buildings over on larch that have sat empty for years. I don't think we're going to get better for this location.
I think of this spot more like a part of the industrial area that surrounds it on Kalamazoo, perhaps a less protonate industrial lot would be a better spot for this type of building, being next to our water and electric facilities has a lot to do with why they want to build there. Due to current economic circumstances, our downtown building boom may be over for a while and building this center there might be a "last chance" for anything to go up at that location for years. I am thinking that the positives outweigh the negatives at this point. maybe they could build a parking ramp over it to save those parking spaces.
I read in the LSJ.com that the folks who own Park Lake Creamery are planning to open a chocolate factory in Old Town at 527 E Ceasar Chaves that will include visitor viewing areas to watch the candy being made. The space is on the east side of Cedar so maybe it will bring some more foot traffic to the part of Old Town. Sounds like a good idea!
I'll have to be an outlier on the data center. If it were on an already privately owned piece of land I might begrudgingly accept it, but selling a city owned lot just raises the bar too high for me to not feel that fighting it is appropriate.
I hate to sometimes sound dramatic, but if I thought that a data center or a warehouse were the best thing we could get on that lot in the next 5 or 10 years, much less ever, then I really should not be here. It's less than a 1/4 mile away from the ballpark and the new construction in Stadium District. Less than 1/4 mile away from a new City Hall and new 28 floor apartment building across the river. Surrounded by major corridors on 3 sides that lead into the aforementioned areas. Even if not a hotel or housing or whatever, this lot would be a perfect place for any number of potential future public/quasi public projects: museum, arena, larger performing arts center, signature park/plaza, etc...
I think this a key piece of property in changing the fate of the Kalamazoo corridor and allowing downtown to straddle both sides of the river, a data center here screws that up long-term. I think the Dye water facility by itself is as big an obstacle the area can deal with. Given the choice, I'd quite literally prefer a city owned surface lot to a data center (or warehouse) here.
The news on Park Lake Creamery is good. I wonder to what extent they'll renovate that building? To have that be an attractive corner could do a lot to help Old Town. I know there was mention of a potential larger development across the street, could be a big change coming for the area.
I think another part of my view on that data center @hood, is that I would prefer development be at parts of the city that will benefit it better. No one wants to be essentially in the median of a highway across from a Wendy's that employs private security, down the street from pot growing facilities. I get its proximity to significant downtown "features", but its just far enough to be off the beaten path. I've gone back and forth on this, so I do get where you're coming from. I just don't think its the worst thing here. Infrastructure wise, and utilizing the heat generated to produce some of the downtown steam, makes a lot of sense here. If it's generating heat for the steam system, it doesn't make sense to locate it far away from the buildings utilizing it.
I do enjoy the discussion on this though, I don't think it's quite agree to disagree (maybe I'm wrong), but I think there needs to be a lot of discussion and public education before deciding on it. Something I feel other significant, less desirable project (imo) like the substation project, didn't get.
Anyways, all that said. Something I am in agreement on is the renovation for the "chocolate factory", especially that location. I'm not sure how serious of a development that would be, maybe just a candy shop type place that makes it in house, but I do feel like it's something we don't really have. I hope this comes to fruition. Though, again, stuck between two very busy, high speed roads, I do worry about traffic to it. Though, Old Town does seem to be successfully extending to that stretch, especially with the Temple being renovated.
In full disclosure, I don't think this is a thing I'm too likely to budge on, but who knows... I guess I just disagree on the idea that development has to be a here or there thing within the city or even within downtown in which only one area can benefit, also that this location in particular is really that undesirable in the big picture. The water treatment plant and the water tank with the solar panels on top are no doubt big roadblocks to extend the Stadium District south, but I don't think they're insurmountable, the existence of the current Stadium District has proven that the roads themselves aren't insurmountable. The Wendy's doesn't won't be there forever, the odd stand of single family houses near 496 could make for a cool spot for mid rise. I'd love to see Kalamazoo between Larch and Penn get some love and I think that's realistic down the road, especially in a world where a mixed use building or public facility goes on this lot in question.
I circle back around to the point about form based code, why bother if we're now allowing this data center plan in this location? Or a pole barn at MLK & St Joe? Regardless of opinion on its current iteration, the form based code exists for the long game. IMO ignoring it is not a recipe for a successful city that finally breaks out of stagnation, it's a recipe for continued mediocrity. Properly applied and adhered to it will have an impact over decades.
As far as the heating goes... Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the REO Town plant is at heating capacity, so I'm not sure whether that's legitimately relevant or not. Not at all relevant to my own opinion on the matter though tbh.
The substation project... ugh. That was pretty bad, it felt like a huge win just to see them go with the faux building look, but it still cost a hotel on the Deluxe Inn site resulting in what we see there now and made the REO Town-Downtown connection that much more difficult a gap to bridge. I'd argue the data center will have a similar effect in an admittedly less strategically important location.
Thanks for a thoughtful discussion on this subject. I cannot remember what was on that location before it became a parking lot. I would guess that it may have been single houses. I am "so old" that I may not live long enough to see this area redeveloped into a housing district, it could happen and it is interesting that it can be pictured as such. It is true that the Kalamazoo St./ Michigan Ave corridor could become a sort of "oldtown" mixed with new. There are a lot of the houses on the north side of Kzoo that are of classic 19th and early 20th century design and would be so cool to rehabilitate. I am not sure why having a data center would be a negative for such redevelopment but now I find myself needing to know more about the impact of a center would have there, and if it is zoned for other uses than maybe we should stick to those restrictions. I honestly would rather see something more appropriate built there and if the data center had to be somewhere else, what about the GM parking lot across from the Olds Administration Building, there is a lot of electrical and steam infrastructure located right there. I am pretty sure that the BWL on S Washington provides steam heat to the GM plants. That lot is empty most of the time and is just a sun-bleached parking crater or maybe locate the center inside the old administration building, it would be nice to see that building used for something besides a billboard.
Comments
Another artical talked about the proposed data center, the company reps. said that this will be a small sized data center not really useful for AI but for other uses, they said the center would use about the same amount of power as Wendy's across the street! It would not use water from the Grand River, provide the hot water for BWL steam customers, and be sound proofed to the standards of the neighborhood noise zoning. If they are to be believed it may be a good thing for Lansing.
I'm still not for the data center there at all, my point is that if they wouldn't let someone put a warehouse there, they shouldn't allow a data center. It belongs in an industrial area. IMO It's another "why did we pass form based code?" moment.
I hate to sometimes sound dramatic, but if I thought that a data center or a warehouse were the best thing we could get on that lot in the next 5 or 10 years, much less ever, then I really should not be here. It's less than a 1/4 mile away from the ballpark and the new construction in Stadium District. Less than 1/4 mile away from a new City Hall and new 28 floor apartment building across the river. Surrounded by major corridors on 3 sides that lead into the aforementioned areas. Even if not a hotel or housing or whatever, this lot would be a perfect place for any number of potential future public/quasi public projects: museum, arena, larger performing arts center, signature park/plaza, etc...
I think this a key piece of property in changing the fate of the Kalamazoo corridor and allowing downtown to straddle both sides of the river, a data center here screws that up long-term. I think the Dye water facility by itself is as big an obstacle the area can deal with. Given the choice, I'd quite literally prefer a city owned surface lot to a data center (or warehouse) here.
The news on Park Lake Creamery is good. I wonder to what extent they'll renovate that building? To have that be an attractive corner could do a lot to help Old Town. I know there was mention of a potential larger development across the street, could be a big change coming for the area.
I do enjoy the discussion on this though, I don't think it's quite agree to disagree (maybe I'm wrong), but I think there needs to be a lot of discussion and public education before deciding on it. Something I feel other significant, less desirable project (imo) like the substation project, didn't get.
Anyways, all that said. Something I am in agreement on is the renovation for the "chocolate factory", especially that location. I'm not sure how serious of a development that would be, maybe just a candy shop type place that makes it in house, but I do feel like it's something we don't really have. I hope this comes to fruition. Though, again, stuck between two very busy, high speed roads, I do worry about traffic to it. Though, Old Town does seem to be successfully extending to that stretch, especially with the Temple being renovated.
I circle back around to the point about form based code, why bother if we're now allowing this data center plan in this location? Or a pole barn at MLK & St Joe? Regardless of opinion on its current iteration, the form based code exists for the long game. IMO ignoring it is not a recipe for a successful city that finally breaks out of stagnation, it's a recipe for continued mediocrity. Properly applied and adhered to it will have an impact over decades.
As far as the heating goes... Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the REO Town plant is at heating capacity, so I'm not sure whether that's legitimately relevant or not. Not at all relevant to my own opinion on the matter though tbh.
The substation project... ugh. That was pretty bad, it felt like a huge win just to see them go with the faux building look, but it still cost a hotel on the Deluxe Inn site resulting in what we see there now and made the REO Town-Downtown connection that much more difficult a gap to bridge. I'd argue the data center will have a similar effect in an admittedly less strategically important location.