Let's get this thing going! It makes me crazy when I hear the phrase "construction may start by the end of the year" again. I think if they do it right it could be a unique setting with water flowing through and under the buildings and could be a model for building on areas that are currently unbuildable while protecting water resources. It is true however that this is not the best place to build, I noticed people seem surprised the area floods. The new businesses hopefully had a lot of flood insurance.
It would be nice if Lansing was using form-based code for this project, and able to require specific streetscape improvements and external building materials.
This view looks to be the assissted living facility at the corner of Clippert and Michigan looking southeast.
Not sure why there is such a big setback, or why this doesn't seem to have any public access from Michigan. Why is the assisted living facility even on the Michigan frontage to begin with given it's usage? Or why they want an assisted living facility in a floodplain, at all. The inclusion of this "medical" aspect given the other focus of the development has always seemed weird to me.
In either case, just happy to see less surface parking than in previous iterations, and the surface parking there is tucked in the interior courtyards and behind the buildings. In the most unsurprising news ever Councilman Hussein is already "concerned" about various aspects of the project unrelated to architecture.
I'm not entirely sure what I expect/hope for out of this project, but I'm somewhat disappointed in the latest renderings/proposal. Bleh. I don't know - this reminds me of some Northern tier-type development in the heart of the city along a major road (okay, on the border of Lansing/E Lansing). I think I liked the height the original proposal had e.g. a 10/11 story hotel, I believe Hyatt-brand. This is a bunch of 4 story plain buildings sprawling across this property in an attempt to fill it in. Perhaps I'm being too harsh, but this looks like a "well it's-better-than-nothing" type of development. Agree with MichMatter's comment that there doesn't appear to be much access from Michigan Ave. Not sure how mixed use this is? It doesn't appear to be an attraction - rather one of those places you'd only go to if you lived there. On a positive, there is not too much surface parking. Overall I think this is a missed opportunity. (Other than the modest hotel) is it really going to draw people to the area? Is it a marquee development as it seemed to be originally branded?
I think we were all hoping for something more exciting and interesting in the way of design. I was waiting for a simplified less expensive plan for a while now. As to why this always seems to happen in Lansing is a question there seems to be no answer for. Mr. Ferguson built the generic looking Capitol Commons that replaced blocks of the west side neighborhood. I guess he thinks a generic design is good enough for Lansing. I am hoping the drawings are just preliminary. I am hoping we do not get another Skyvue type design with these new buildings. We can all feel good that there will be parking for 2,000! cars, because after all, that is the most important thing. I think Lansing deserves something more than "it's better than nothing". The park that was there and the trees they cut down were already better than nothing.
The building setback makes it have a less urban aesthetic to me. It would not encourage me to walk from campus to the Frandor area. Seems to miss the mark to my expectations with the raised first floor makes the sidewalk between a wall and 45mph traffic does not excite me. I do not see any midblock crossings or bike infrastructure. I share similar thoughts to something is better than nothing but I always go back to this is what is going to be there for possibly 40 years and am disappointed.
Yeah, I was pretty sad seeing the renderings here. I was going to type up a long comment but your comments basically describe my feelings too. I can't picture this drawing anybody in, and walking along the sidewalk will still feel like you're on an endless road.
I guess we should have seen some of this coming, though I'll wait for better renderings to render a final judgement. For instance, they are required to raise the first floor because of the floodplain so no one should have expected entrances flush with the level of sidewalk, and I think the residential first floor has to be raised even higher (and maybe even higher still for a medical center), which is why you see the elevation difference between that part and the commercial part. Showing it from the assisted living facility end is also not the most flattering angle of the project, either.
I can't imagine this are the final plans, though, because just eyeballing it, there is no way the two hotels meet the 80-foot height requirement even if they meet the five-story requirement. I'm still interested in seeing tthe eastern part of the sight. A lot of this still has to be fleshed out, but if you read the requirements posted on the previous page, that's something good you can take from this.
I was hopeful with them originally using Hobbs & Black the achitecture would be more inspired, but when you look at the work of the main developer (Kass from Columbus), it really shouldn't have been a surprise. All of his work looks sub-standard. When his company came on is when the quality starting getting worse in what few renderings they leaked to us. Though the Jeromes were supposedly difficult to deal with, the project looked better when it was them involved with Ferguson Development instead of Ferguson Development now being partnered with Kass' Continental.
During my time at Hobbs and Black I did a lot of work on this, more so a couple of years ago though. I'm glad you brought up those points about requirements @MichMatters. The first floor was only 1' above the 100 year flood line. The setbacks were the minimum that we could get away with. It, unfortunately, has to look similar to these renderings simply because of the site and restrictions.
I don't know if it still exists, but the entire thing was actually to be built on top of a podium which contained much of the parking; that's where the majority of it was contained.
It is unfortunate what has come of this project though. It had such potential.
The land is not buildable without the plinth, which is why the plinth has always been the central part of the private-development portion of the site. I can't really be disappointed about that, though, because we knew that from jump. You go to any large building around the golf course and you see all of the apartment buildings have their first residential level at least a floor above the ground level. And you see why from the flood last week where the large apartment building directly west of the park was nearly flooded,
It's actually, it's amazing they are even bothering putting any ground floor retail in the main portion of this, at all, given the elevation.
Honestly, the siteplan isn't bad at all. And even while the massing is a bit underwhelming - I'd like to see everything at least a floor or two taller - even that's not bad. It's not like the siteplan and massings are all that different from previous versions of the project. In fact, like I said, there is actually less surface parking in this version of the development than previous ones; they actually fill the site even better than what was originally planned, which looked like a gussied up mall.
My only complaint is the architecture...and unfortunately it's a BIG complaint. The older renderings used way more stone (or even just painted/colored concrete) and glass. That's what I'm really lamenting here.
Comments
Let's get this thing going! It makes me crazy when I hear the phrase "construction may start by the end of the year" again. I think if they do it right it could be a unique setting with water flowing through and under the buildings and could be a model for building on areas that are currently unbuildable while protecting water resources. It is true however that this is not the best place to build, I noticed people seem surprised the area floods. The new businesses hopefully had a lot of flood insurance.
It would be nice if Lansing was using form-based code for this project, and able to require specific streetscape improvements and external building materials.
EDIT: The LSJ has two small renderings.
This view looks to be the assissted living facility at the corner of Clippert and Michigan looking southeast.
Not sure why there is such a big setback, or why this doesn't seem to have any public access from Michigan. Why is the assisted living facility even on the Michigan frontage to begin with given it's usage? Or why they want an assisted living facility in a floodplain, at all. The inclusion of this "medical" aspect given the other focus of the development has always seemed weird to me.
In either case, just happy to see less surface parking than in previous iterations, and the surface parking there is tucked in the interior courtyards and behind the buildings. In the most unsurprising news ever Councilman Hussein is already "concerned" about various aspects of the project unrelated to architecture.
I'm not entirely sure what I expect/hope for out of this project, but I'm somewhat disappointed in the latest renderings/proposal. Bleh. I don't know - this reminds me of some Northern tier-type development in the heart of the city along a major road (okay, on the border of Lansing/E Lansing). I think I liked the height the original proposal had e.g. a 10/11 story hotel, I believe Hyatt-brand. This is a bunch of 4 story plain buildings sprawling across this property in an attempt to fill it in. Perhaps I'm being too harsh, but this looks like a "well it's-better-than-nothing" type of development. Agree with MichMatter's comment that there doesn't appear to be much access from Michigan Ave. Not sure how mixed use this is? It doesn't appear to be an attraction - rather one of those places you'd only go to if you lived there. On a positive, there is not too much surface parking. Overall I think this is a missed opportunity. (Other than the modest hotel) is it really going to draw people to the area? Is it a marquee development as it seemed to be originally branded?
I think we were all hoping for something more exciting and interesting in the way of design. I was waiting for a simplified less expensive plan for a while now. As to why this always seems to happen in Lansing is a question there seems to be no answer for. Mr. Ferguson built the generic looking Capitol Commons that replaced blocks of the west side neighborhood. I guess he thinks a generic design is good enough for Lansing. I am hoping the drawings are just preliminary. I am hoping we do not get another Skyvue type design with these new buildings. We can all feel good that there will be parking for 2,000! cars, because after all, that is the most important thing. I think Lansing deserves something more than "it's better than nothing". The park that was there and the trees they cut down were already better than nothing.
The building setback makes it have a less urban aesthetic to me. It would not encourage me to walk from campus to the Frandor area. Seems to miss the mark to my expectations with the raised first floor makes the sidewalk between a wall and 45mph traffic does not excite me. I do not see any midblock crossings or bike infrastructure. I share similar thoughts to something is better than nothing but I always go back to this is what is going to be there for possibly 40 years and am disappointed.
Yeah, I was pretty sad seeing the renderings here. I was going to type up a long comment but your comments basically describe my feelings too. I can't picture this drawing anybody in, and walking along the sidewalk will still feel like you're on an endless road.
I guess we should have seen some of this coming, though I'll wait for better renderings to render a final judgement. For instance, they are required to raise the first floor because of the floodplain so no one should have expected entrances flush with the level of sidewalk, and I think the residential first floor has to be raised even higher (and maybe even higher still for a medical center), which is why you see the elevation difference between that part and the commercial part. Showing it from the assisted living facility end is also not the most flattering angle of the project, either.
I can't imagine this are the final plans, though, because just eyeballing it, there is no way the two hotels meet the 80-foot height requirement even if they meet the five-story requirement. I'm still interested in seeing tthe eastern part of the sight. A lot of this still has to be fleshed out, but if you read the requirements posted on the previous page, that's something good you can take from this.
I was hopeful with them originally using Hobbs & Black the achitecture would be more inspired, but when you look at the work of the main developer (Kass from Columbus), it really shouldn't have been a surprise. All of his work looks sub-standard. When his company came on is when the quality starting getting worse in what few renderings they leaked to us. Though the Jeromes were supposedly difficult to deal with, the project looked better when it was them involved with Ferguson Development instead of Ferguson Development now being partnered with Kass' Continental.
During my time at Hobbs and Black I did a lot of work on this, more so a couple of years ago though. I'm glad you brought up those points about requirements @MichMatters. The first floor was only 1' above the 100 year flood line. The setbacks were the minimum that we could get away with. It, unfortunately, has to look similar to these renderings simply because of the site and restrictions.
I don't know if it still exists, but the entire thing was actually to be built on top of a podium which contained much of the parking; that's where the majority of it was contained.
It is unfortunate what has come of this project though. It had such potential.
The land is not buildable without the plinth, which is why the plinth has always been the central part of the private-development portion of the site. I can't really be disappointed about that, though, because we knew that from jump. You go to any large building around the golf course and you see all of the apartment buildings have their first residential level at least a floor above the ground level. And you see why from the flood last week where the large apartment building directly west of the park was nearly flooded,
It's actually, it's amazing they are even bothering putting any ground floor retail in the main portion of this, at all, given the elevation.
Honestly, the siteplan isn't bad at all. And even while the massing is a bit underwhelming - I'd like to see everything at least a floor or two taller - even that's not bad. It's not like the siteplan and massings are all that different from previous versions of the project. In fact, like I said, there is actually less surface parking in this version of the development than previous ones; they actually fill the site even better than what was originally planned, which looked like a gussied up mall.
My only complaint is the architecture...and unfortunately it's a BIG complaint. The older renderings used way more stone (or even just painted/colored concrete) and glass. That's what I'm really lamenting here.