I agree also. Alternative 1 or 2. To end the BRT short of the eastern end of route 1 (i.e. near campus), then have to transfer to a traditional bus to continue down Grand River does not make sense. Yes I think for this to work BRT must exist fully in Lansing and East Lansing, then modify the route for Meridian Township. I would still include the signal preference in Meridian Township. From Park Lake Rd to Okemos Road there are no stop lights and few side streets, so I don't feel the BRT is crucial through there, and it would alleviate left turn concerns that the Township and Chamber have. 15, 20 years down the road, the BRT could them be extended in some form into Meridian Township if desired.
The illustration of the BRT on Michigan Ave. is really good. How could someone look at that and say oh yeah I like the old Michigan Ave. The one women from Meridian said in the article what I think many people over there feel. That being, she moved to Okemos to live in the suburbs, she thinks a BRT makes the area too urban. That seems pretty thinly veiled to me, they want the urban [poor people,minorities] to stop at Hagadorn. Too bad urban goes all the from Grand Ledge to Lake Lansing now. The Meridian Mall is the eastern end of a downtown that starts at the the Capitol. The folks out there better pack up and head out even further but then they may find themselves in the urban area of another city. I think there is lots of country to live in in Michigan where you will never see a bus or find a job[there are poor people everywhere]. Get out there and leave us city folks and our BRT alone. I think ending the dedicated lane east of Hagadorn would be OK for now, but I would really like to see the whole thing built at one time.
I didn't read much more into the comment than face value, but even in the on-its-face interpretation of that quote, it's hilarious as it's not as if there are a lot of residential neighborhoods directly abutting the area around the mall. If the immediate area around the mall does urbanize, there is still a lot of buffer zones between it and the subdivisions. And, I don't know why they don't get it, but this will mean less conjestion in that area because fewer cars will be on the road.
I know I sound like a broken record, and I'm trying just to be content with the fact that CATa is not backing down so this is likely to happen, anyway, but I can't believe how badly Meridian Township is acting out. I think there are six total stations of the line in Meridian Township out of a total of 27 stations. Two of those stations are west of Park Lake Road which most people consider and extension of East Lansing, anyway, and two of the stations are in the Mall and Meijer parking lots, so they aren't even in the street. That means that there are really only two stations in the street between where most people consider the township to start anyway (east of Park Lake Road): Campus Hill Drive, and the name says it all, this is basically a student enclave in the township, and Montrose Drive, which would serve the low-density strip of business between Park Lake and the Mall.
Truth is that the Township portion of this line is the least invasive part of the line, and this portion of the line is where they have the most room for the it. You still get two full lanes of thru-traffic in Meridian Township under this plan. Lansing businesses in particular would have much more to complain about, but they are willing to take the trade-offs.
Anyway, to remain positive, here are the visualizations of the line, again. I'm not sure if things were added of if I just don't remember, but I don't recall seeing the visualization of the downtown loop.
Definitely I'd hope to see the BRT completed fully (not BRT light) for the entire length, downtown Lansing-East Lansing-Okemos. My fear, perhaps unfounded, is that the Township and some business and the coalition building going on against the project will either delay it significantly (lawsuits, etc) though news articles indicate the plan is on schedule regardless. Or, more likely, the BRT will be scaled back such that it does not have the full/intended impact.
At least the first two alternatives still preserve the full BRT in Lansing-East Lansing (currently the densest areas) and the BRT runs in some form for the original intended length.
This is a somewhat poor analogy, but it reminds me somewhat of the new train station on Harrison. Much different circumstances, that was scaled back due to budget, etc. Regardless the end result was less than initial renderings, and while it is still nice, leaves me feeling "meh" about it.
I think that is correct, in the sense of a project being cut down from it's original plan because of interference and bean counting of some sort. Which is something that seems to happen to every project in Lansing.The river front park was to at one time include plans for attractions like a winter garden, fountains and outdoor theaters and gardens. What we ended up with back [the late 70's] then was an asphalt path and a few boardwalks. I remember these cement features that made no sense at all. That is just one example of many you could point to like the City Market. So I say that CATA and Greater Lansing should go ahead with the whole project and not let a tiny minority cut this plan down to another bus route. Let the system function as planned.
So, CATA had their first public meeting on their reworking of their plan, last night. This was the East Lansing meeting. As you can expect, only the opposition groupies showed up. I call them groupies because one of the guys they quote is from Meridian Township, so it seems like the Meridian Township malcontents are taking their show on the road. lol They'll probably be at the Lansing meeting, too. lol I like that at least they are now admitting that they aren't arguing in good faith admitting that there is nothing CATA could do to convince them of the need for the project. As long as they are being honest about that, I can respect them.
Anyway, enough ranting, one new piece of information came out of this meeting: A loop through Frandor is part of all five alternatives. I was a bit disappointed that the original plan didn't do what the current #1 does at Frandor, so this is one part of the change I can get behind. It's a trade-off (slightly slower trip but you gain interior access to Frandor so you don't have to try and navigate the long driveways and parking lots) that I approve of.
Yes include Frandor! I would hope that including Frandor on the BRT route would be the thing they need to get the whole parking area reconfigured and the plan for the new drain will be put into place. Most of Frandor is very popular and I think it will be more so with the BRT. Maybe they could run some sort of little shuttle bus route around there if they do not build a stop within the shopping center. I was there recently and noticed the political graffiti on the new parking structure. I am hoping that maybe now they will do something with the bare cement that would look better and not be a venue for graffiti. I think it is very strange that the anti-BRT folks spend so much time and energy showing up to bad mouth CATA and the BRT. I really don't think they must have any lives at all!
I don't know. Frandor is a popular stop. It's also clear that that crawl into and out of Frandor is going to put a significant dent in the "Rapid" part of "Rapid Transit". Personally I think I'd rather just have a stop on Michigan Ave - WITH a well built pedestrian pathway up into Frandor which does not, now, exist.
A kind of weird stalemate. Meridian Township, tonight, refused to hold a vote, either way, on the five alternatives presented to them saying that they'll hold to their current opposition to the plan. Strangely, this is kind of a win for the project since they refused a vote to say "no" twice.
Comments
I know I sound like a broken record, and I'm trying just to be content with the fact that CATa is not backing down so this is likely to happen, anyway, but I can't believe how badly Meridian Township is acting out. I think there are six total stations of the line in Meridian Township out of a total of 27 stations. Two of those stations are west of Park Lake Road which most people consider and extension of East Lansing, anyway, and two of the stations are in the Mall and Meijer parking lots, so they aren't even in the street. That means that there are really only two stations in the street between where most people consider the township to start anyway (east of Park Lake Road): Campus Hill Drive, and the name says it all, this is basically a student enclave in the township, and Montrose Drive, which would serve the low-density strip of business between Park Lake and the Mall.
Truth is that the Township portion of this line is the least invasive part of the line, and this portion of the line is where they have the most room for the it. You still get two full lanes of thru-traffic in Meridian Township under this plan. Lansing businesses in particular would have much more to complain about, but they are willing to take the trade-offs.
Anyway, to remain positive, here are the visualizations of the line, again. I'm not sure if things were added of if I just don't remember, but I don't recall seeing the visualization of the downtown loop.
BRT Visualization
At least the first two alternatives still preserve the full BRT in Lansing-East Lansing (currently the densest areas) and the BRT runs in some form for the original intended length.
This is a somewhat poor analogy, but it reminds me somewhat of the new train station on Harrison. Much different circumstances, that was scaled back due to budget, etc. Regardless the end result was less than initial renderings, and while it is still nice, leaves me feeling "meh" about it.
Anyway, enough ranting, one new piece of information came out of this meeting: A loop through Frandor is part of all five alternatives. I was a bit disappointed that the original plan didn't do what the current #1 does at Frandor, so this is one part of the change I can get behind. It's a trade-off (slightly slower trip but you gain interior access to Frandor so you don't have to try and navigate the long driveways and parking lots) that I approve of.
By the way, CATA issued a GREAT 12-page FAQ answering all kinds of questions: https://www.cata.org/Portals/0/CATA Oct. 3-5 BRT Meeting Questions and Answers Final.pdf?ver=2016-10-12-165200-530