I don't think we'll have to worry about a parking ramp along Michigan with this proposal. In their initial plan, which they haven't publicly updated as far as I know, they were going to build a small temporary casino at the corner of Cedar & Michigan immediately after gaining approval. Once the main casino opened they said the temporary casino would become a "boutique casino." The temporary casino is the building pictured in my post at the top of this page, you can see the parking ramp from the other renderings in the background. There was mention of another large parking ramp possibly being built north of the ballpark on land Gillespie now owns.
I'm actually surprised more developers/owners aren't taking advantage of tenant space in their projects. Even if there isn't the demand, have it incorporated and fit it out as needed. The Sparrow parking deck for the cancer center is a good example of that. As far as I'm aware, there is not yet a tenant and the inside space in unfinished. If you have street frontage on a main street, why wouldn't you take advantage of that? I mean, I'm glad to hear it would be a boutique casino over a parking deck, but what does that even mean? Do we really need 2 casinos next door to one another?
With that said, it's all better than the parking lot that's currently there. I'm all in favor of fewer surface lots downtown.
I think the primary motivation behind the small casino at the corner is just to get a casino open ASAP following approval while the larger casino is designed and constructed, the boutique casino was probably only conceived of because they had to find a use for the temporary casino once the main one opened. They may very well end up finding a different use for that building or they may end up tearing it down as it would be the perfect spot for a hotel to accompany the casino.
I totally agree on building storefronts into ground floors or at least ensuring that the design can accommodate them. That may be too much to expect from the casino or its ramp, casinos tend to be funny about those sorts of things, they just want to draw you inside and keep you there as long as possible.
Yes, I am being optimistic wishing they will build something that we will want to look at for a very long time. I may be wrong but doesn't the Greektown Casino have street front shops and fast food restaurants along Monroe Ave. with the casino hall behind, I was only there once, but most of the store fronts also had interior entrance across a corridor from the casino. It would be nice if they made a little street life on Cedar, again wishful thinking!
I believe Greektown Casino is attached through and arcade to the streets on Monroe via Trapper's Alley. So, it's build onto the back of the buildings on Monroe. But, no, the new building, itself, facing Lafayette doesn't have any interaction with the outside. And, the only reason they have connection with the businesses on Monroe is because it's a way to get people into the casino from the main activity node of the district.
Hood alluded to it, but casinos are some of the most inward-facing developments you can have. They are so anti-anything else that they don't even usually have real windows to the outside, because that would allow you discern the passage of time.
It's funny, because this is one of those project I'm most ambivalent about. Not a fan of casinos, and particularly if being sold as some kind of revitalization tool, but this isn't really being sold as such. It's basically another Lansing Center amenity. And, as someone who grew up downtown, with this having been the loading area for the Lansing Center since I've lived here, I always assumed that it likely be used one day for an expansion of the city, anyway. So, basically anything built there to fill the corner I count as a plus as far as I'm concerned. I guess it'd be nice to have something at the corner of Cedar and Larch in particular. I guess at least for the parking garage portion we could force them to include a retail storefront or two, but I wonder how given the thinness of the site if it would make the parking not work internally? I think it's why the south end of the garage is where the temporary casino would go, because they don't need that space, whereas they have to squeeze and entrance and an exit onto Cedar.
It may not being sold as such but I think it will do quite a bit to revitalize downtown should it be built. A casino would do wonders to attract more events at the Lansing Center, it would increase attendance at Lugnuts games, it would greatly increase demand for hotel space downtown and all the employees would become potential customers at nearby businesses. All those things add up to thousands of more people downtown on a daily basis, particularly at times when downtown could really use the increased traffic.
One downside of the casino I've thought about is that it takes away room for a much needed Lansing Center expansion while simultaneously increasing demand for convention space. I kind of hope that the casino eventually buys the Lansing Center for their own expansion and the Lansing Center is rebuilt from the ground up somewhere else. I know it's looking a bit far ahead, but I think something like that would be inevitable as the casino would almost certainly need to expand at some point and the Lansing Center needs to be larger already.
I am in with it would benefit downtown. It takes a lot of people to man an operation like that 24-7. Those people would be a new part of the downtown economy along with casino players. I think the urban site could be very busy and extra busy on home game days, and weekends in general. I would "bet" that lots of the folks going to the "Deer and Turkey Show" or any event at the Lansing Center would stay downtown longer and visit the casino.
I would also think that it is interesting that they did not include a large auditorium/arena when they build the center. The auditorium was the main feature of the old Civic Center. Perhaps the casino could include an auditorium/theater for some big shows. Build it on top of the Lansing Center, or where the City Market is now.
I am against the casino. I would much rather have a large grocery store move in downtown. I realize it's not an either-or, but this spot takes away from future Lansing Center expansion and replaces it with a venue that will take money away from gamblers and the community and replace it with minimum wages.
A grocery store of any size downtown is not a mutually exclusive prospect, it can happen or not happen with or without a casino or anything else being built. Regarding the Lansing Center, I've grown to feel that seeing it replaced entirely would be far better than seeing it expanded, the casino could help make that happen. The major problem comes if rebuilding it isn't in their plans, I really hope this is something that the city has thought about. Allowing the Lansing Center to continue on surrounded by the casino for any extended period of time shouldn't be an option.
The argument about casinos taking peoples money is a valid one in many ways, but I still feel that having a casino downtown that will be helping to fund a scholarship program for the city's public schools will be a net positive. Another factor is that in this area there is already easy access to other casinos, if people are going to gamble anyways we may as well keep the money local.
Gambling is an entertainment game, but can become an addiction for some people. The plan as it is now would give money back, and provide hospitality industry jobs which is more than that area is providing now. I am thinking the mix of people would be 60% visitors to Lansing, and 40% local people. I understand the sentiment, and there are negative effects that can happen, but I don't think Lansing is banking "everything" on the hope that a casino will save us like Atlantic City. I think it could be a part of a dynamic downtown with many entertainment options. It may not ever happen in a casino but maybe there could be some sort of over- site[limits] and help available to keep people out of trouble.
Comments
I don't think we'll have to worry about a parking ramp along Michigan with this proposal. In their initial plan, which they haven't publicly updated as far as I know, they were going to build a small temporary casino at the corner of Cedar & Michigan immediately after gaining approval. Once the main casino opened they said the temporary casino would become a "boutique casino." The temporary casino is the building pictured in my post at the top of this page, you can see the parking ramp from the other renderings in the background. There was mention of another large parking ramp possibly being built north of the ballpark on land Gillespie now owns.
I'm actually surprised more developers/owners aren't taking advantage of tenant space in their projects. Even if there isn't the demand, have it incorporated and fit it out as needed. The Sparrow parking deck for the cancer center is a good example of that. As far as I'm aware, there is not yet a tenant and the inside space in unfinished. If you have street frontage on a main street, why wouldn't you take advantage of that? I mean, I'm glad to hear it would be a boutique casino over a parking deck, but what does that even mean? Do we really need 2 casinos next door to one another?
With that said, it's all better than the parking lot that's currently there. I'm all in favor of fewer surface lots downtown.
I think the primary motivation behind the small casino at the corner is just to get a casino open ASAP following approval while the larger casino is designed and constructed, the boutique casino was probably only conceived of because they had to find a use for the temporary casino once the main one opened. They may very well end up finding a different use for that building or they may end up tearing it down as it would be the perfect spot for a hotel to accompany the casino.
I totally agree on building storefronts into ground floors or at least ensuring that the design can accommodate them. That may be too much to expect from the casino or its ramp, casinos tend to be funny about those sorts of things, they just want to draw you inside and keep you there as long as possible.
Yes, I am being optimistic wishing they will build something that we will want to look at for a very long time. I may be wrong but doesn't the Greektown Casino have street front shops and fast food restaurants along Monroe Ave. with the casino hall behind, I was only there once, but most of the store fronts also had interior entrance across a corridor from the casino. It would be nice if they made a little street life on Cedar, again wishful thinking!
I believe Greektown Casino is attached through and arcade to the streets on Monroe via Trapper's Alley. So, it's build onto the back of the buildings on Monroe. But, no, the new building, itself, facing Lafayette doesn't have any interaction with the outside. And, the only reason they have connection with the businesses on Monroe is because it's a way to get people into the casino from the main activity node of the district.
Hood alluded to it, but casinos are some of the most inward-facing developments you can have. They are so anti-anything else that they don't even usually have real windows to the outside, because that would allow you discern the passage of time.
It's funny, because this is one of those project I'm most ambivalent about. Not a fan of casinos, and particularly if being sold as some kind of revitalization tool, but this isn't really being sold as such. It's basically another Lansing Center amenity. And, as someone who grew up downtown, with this having been the loading area for the Lansing Center since I've lived here, I always assumed that it likely be used one day for an expansion of the city, anyway. So, basically anything built there to fill the corner I count as a plus as far as I'm concerned. I guess it'd be nice to have something at the corner of Cedar and Larch in particular. I guess at least for the parking garage portion we could force them to include a retail storefront or two, but I wonder how given the thinness of the site if it would make the parking not work internally? I think it's why the south end of the garage is where the temporary casino would go, because they don't need that space, whereas they have to squeeze and entrance and an exit onto Cedar.
It may not being sold as such but I think it will do quite a bit to revitalize downtown should it be built. A casino would do wonders to attract more events at the Lansing Center, it would increase attendance at Lugnuts games, it would greatly increase demand for hotel space downtown and all the employees would become potential customers at nearby businesses. All those things add up to thousands of more people downtown on a daily basis, particularly at times when downtown could really use the increased traffic.
One downside of the casino I've thought about is that it takes away room for a much needed Lansing Center expansion while simultaneously increasing demand for convention space. I kind of hope that the casino eventually buys the Lansing Center for their own expansion and the Lansing Center is rebuilt from the ground up somewhere else. I know it's looking a bit far ahead, but I think something like that would be inevitable as the casino would almost certainly need to expand at some point and the Lansing Center needs to be larger already.
I am in with it would benefit downtown. It takes a lot of people to man an operation like that 24-7. Those people would be a new part of the downtown economy along with casino players. I think the urban site could be very busy and extra busy on home game days, and weekends in general. I would "bet" that lots of the folks going to the "Deer and Turkey Show" or any event at the Lansing Center would stay downtown longer and visit the casino.
I would also think that it is interesting that they did not include a large auditorium/arena when they build the center. The auditorium was the main feature of the old Civic Center. Perhaps the casino could include an auditorium/theater for some big shows. Build it on top of the Lansing Center, or where the City Market is now.
A grocery store of any size downtown is not a mutually exclusive prospect, it can happen or not happen with or without a casino or anything else being built. Regarding the Lansing Center, I've grown to feel that seeing it replaced entirely would be far better than seeing it expanded, the casino could help make that happen. The major problem comes if rebuilding it isn't in their plans, I really hope this is something that the city has thought about. Allowing the Lansing Center to continue on surrounded by the casino for any extended period of time shouldn't be an option.
The argument about casinos taking peoples money is a valid one in many ways, but I still feel that having a casino downtown that will be helping to fund a scholarship program for the city's public schools will be a net positive. Another factor is that in this area there is already easy access to other casinos, if people are going to gamble anyways we may as well keep the money local.
Gambling is an entertainment game, but can become an addiction for some people. The plan as it is now would give money back, and provide hospitality industry jobs which is more than that area is providing now. I am thinking the mix of people would be 60% visitors to Lansing, and 40% local people. I understand the sentiment, and there are negative effects that can happen, but I don't think Lansing is banking "everything" on the hope that a casino will save us like Atlantic City. I think it could be a part of a dynamic downtown with many entertainment options. It may not ever happen in a casino but maybe there could be some sort of over- site[limits] and help available to keep people out of trouble.