I have been glad to hear that I am not the only one upset by the utility tree cuts. I have read and heard several reports. BWL claims they are using a balanced approach, but when you see the hack jobs they have done on some trees and whole neighborhoods, I guess balanced means "be glad we did not cut down the whole tree". It was reported that other utility companies have said that such drastic cuts that are going to end with the tree dying or just falling over are not necessary . They seem arrogant when the say the safety of their workers is their biggest concern, how dare anyone question that! We can have big healthy attractive trees and we can have power lines near them. However bad it may seem when the lights go out, how many hours out of the last ten years was Lansing with out power? It could be pointed out that for 99% of the last ten years trees have not fallen on power lines. They seem more aggressive in public parks because hey they [the city BWL] own those trees. Huge 50 to 70 year old cotton wood trees, giant sycamores 50 foot tall maples, have been cut down all together or cut in half in parks and along the river trail. The people own those trees the people own the BWL it is not the other way around, they should start listening to the people. Last rant on trees!
I'm happy to see that they are considering a faux-building facade like I had hoped for, according to City Pulse it was the best received design at the charrette, hopefully it's the look they go with. I'd like it if the walls were a little taller and if the faux-facade wrapped all the way around the site rather than transitioning to a plain brick wall. If done right this might not turn out horrible.
Certainly better than the mess they came up with originally, that's for sure. I'd just really like if they'd keep/plant trees along the riverfront side of it to lessen it's visual impact. It actually looks more foreboding than I'd imagined it would from that angle.
But, yeah, loads better. It'd have been nice to have this down at the old REO Plant site, though.
I just noted the post, and as I live in REOtown it's really an important issue for me. The top view is what the neighbors will be looking at every time we head or look to the north. The S. Washington facade will only be in view when you are directly in front of it. Considering the view we have now this is really harsh. This also will be what you will see from the river, and the river trail. Here is what I think they could do besides not build it there. Set the thing back preserving the boarder of trees that surrounds the sunken garden on the east and south. Build the faux building wall higher the cover all the the rigging. Maybe get a bit creative with the rigging if it has to be visible. How about a steam punk Victorian industrial look, or ultra-modern sleek shinny stainless steel look. I think as long as they have to build it it might as well be easier to look at, maybe even interesting. Maybe some sort of electric "show", like in a science museum with electric bolts flashing between steel balls and glowing orbs that change color. Turn on the show after dark every night. Paint the rigging red like the Golden Gate Bridge. Anything but ugly generic electric rigs with prison lot white l.e.d. lights.
It's sad to see how over time we've come to grips with giving away our parks to become utility sites (future brownfield sites). I wish this, and many other things happening, weren't the case.
That being said, this proposal still has many issues. The power plant shouldn't be exposed in its designed-ugly form and the wall is very uninviting and "dead". It would be nicer if it included cutouts for planters, windows in to the plant (why not?, at least give pedestrians something to look at), and benches.
While I'll never be happy to have a substation there I was never happy with the state of Scott Park either, particularly it being so isolated from Washington. Until I learned more about the Sunken Garden I had always wanted to see a portion of the park, perhaps the easternmost 100-150 feet facing Washington, sold for development. I give that background only to explain why I'm not up in arms over this being built here; I'm not terribly angry to see a portion of the park go, I just don't want a substation there.
That being said, I like the look of faux-facade portions of the new design, I like the look of the windows and accents. It's not good enough overall though. I agree that the walls need to be higher, I believe they said the wall is 18 feet at its tallest in the current design, if that's the case then it should probably be more like 24 feet and it should retain that height all the way around. It also shouldn't have a stark transition from a facade-like wall to just a plain wall, the faux-facade should wrap all the way around the site and the more detailed windowed sections should completely line the Washington and Malcolm X facades. The BWL is doing something controversial and even legally questionable, it's on them to go above and beyond to make it up the citizens, especially neighbors of the park.
I really like the idea of allowing some sort of 'portal' to site, perhaps even a small interior portion built into the facade to allow viewing of the site, have displays explaining what it does and so on. It could even be a sort of mini museum, similar to what power companies might put near a dam.
The idea of turning the substation structures into sculptures of some sort is also a good one, I've seen pictures of some pretty interesting transmission towers:
All of this seems like wishful thinking. We're lucky we're even getting the proposal above out of them, and if anything, that is probably more than what they end up doing. They can do decent power plants, but we're talking a substation, here. Almost no one does fancy substations, anymore, and I don't expect the BWL to do any more than what they are putting out there. It's precisely why we don't put modern substations in prominent areas if we can help it, because they aren't going to be made to look nice. The cost is just too high.
Back in the olden days when they were smaller, they often put them inside buildings like we see across some parts of the city, but you're not going to get anything this large to look "nice" in a way anyone wants it to. It's been like pulling teeth to even get a decorative wall into the plan without the unrealistic expectations of benches, and fancier designs, and museums, and what-not. We're talking about a small-city utility in a not particularly wealthy town, here.
We should expect more of the BWL, they're a publicly owned entity relatively flush with cash. There's absolutely no reason not to expect more, whether we get it is irrelevant. If no one through a fit in the first place we could very well be looking at portions of the wall being chain link fence with barbed wire. I understand there's still one charrette and I'm not likely to get there, I truly wish I could be there because I would like to at least throw some of these ideas out there.
As a community we have to start expecting more or Lansing will continue to lose out to more demanding, more ambitious cities. Everything here ends up half-assed and it's tiring.
Thank you for an interesting discussion, and it's true we have been forced to admit that this awful thing is going to happen, and it truly pains me to look over there now thinking about spring and what that will mean for this little peaceful corner. It feels to me like the whole country is now filled with people who can no longer see right from wrong and make decisions with no sense of community or even humanity. The BWL is trying to make right from wrong with some happy talk and pretty pictures. The real fact is, who is going to linger in these plazas on S Washington, sit there facing the traffic in the blazing sun? Take a look at the benches installed along S. Cedar near 496, have you ever seen anyone just sitting and relaxing on one of those benches as the traffic exhaust blows over them.The same will happen in front a fake building with no one inside. I can see wind swept litter collecting dead space. Just as with the tree cuts they have framed this whole thing as the bully who knows what is best, if you don't go a long you are some sort of tree huger[ which I am!]. So yes we should ask better of the BWL which we own not the other way, and demand the most beautiful sub station ever built, or build it somewhere else. No more half-assed Lansing!
On the point of desolate, underused areas, the main reason I didn't like the way Scott Park was set up was that between the river, the park and the freeway there are three "dead" blocks along Washington at an important transition point if REO Town and Downtown are to ever become more cohesive. I do think even the best of the recently proposed options will make things worse, but given the right design, I do think this substation could actually be a net positive to the area. I don't realistically think we'll get that design, but we should have. It's just that we as a community sold ourselves short, me included for not showing up to any meetings or charrettes, or doing much of anything else.
On BWL specifically, there seemed to be some sort of shift around when they changed their logo and painted the Dye plant goofy colors while also replacing its neon sign with a cheap backlit plastic one. I was surprised then and now that no one cared more about seeing that building painted like that. That concrete was left unfinished as intended for decades just to be unceremoniously painted over in tacky colors, I'd guess that it will be difficult and expensive (if not impossible) to restore to it's unfinished state. I don't know what's going on at the BWL, there's some very poor decisions being made, but then they do a lot of good too, including building the REO Town power plant.
Comments
City Pulse ran an article on the new substation this week: Hide it or flaunt it?
I'm happy to see that they are considering a faux-building facade like I had hoped for, according to City Pulse it was the best received design at the charrette, hopefully it's the look they go with. I'd like it if the walls were a little taller and if the faux-facade wrapped all the way around the site rather than transitioning to a plain brick wall. If done right this might not turn out horrible.
Certainly better than the mess they came up with originally, that's for sure. I'd just really like if they'd keep/plant trees along the riverfront side of it to lessen it's visual impact. It actually looks more foreboding than I'd imagined it would from that angle.
But, yeah, loads better. It'd have been nice to have this down at the old REO Plant site, though.
I just noted the post, and as I live in REOtown it's really an important issue for me. The top view is what the neighbors will be looking at every time we head or look to the north. The S. Washington facade will only be in view when you are directly in front of it. Considering the view we have now this is really harsh. This also will be what you will see from the river, and the river trail. Here is what I think they could do besides not build it there. Set the thing back preserving the boarder of trees that surrounds the sunken garden on the east and south. Build the faux building wall higher the cover all the the rigging. Maybe get a bit creative with the rigging if it has to be visible. How about a steam punk Victorian industrial look, or ultra-modern sleek shinny stainless steel look. I think as long as they have to build it it might as well be easier to look at, maybe even interesting. Maybe some sort of electric "show", like in a science museum with electric bolts flashing between steel balls and glowing orbs that change color. Turn on the show after dark every night. Paint the rigging red like the Golden Gate Bridge. Anything but ugly generic electric rigs with prison lot white l.e.d. lights.
It's sad to see how over time we've come to grips with giving away our parks to become utility sites (future brownfield sites). I wish this, and many other things happening, weren't the case.
That being said, this proposal still has many issues. The power plant shouldn't be exposed in its designed-ugly form and the wall is very uninviting and "dead". It would be nicer if it included cutouts for planters, windows in to the plant (why not?, at least give pedestrians something to look at), and benches.
While I'll never be happy to have a substation there I was never happy with the state of Scott Park either, particularly it being so isolated from Washington. Until I learned more about the Sunken Garden I had always wanted to see a portion of the park, perhaps the easternmost 100-150 feet facing Washington, sold for development. I give that background only to explain why I'm not up in arms over this being built here; I'm not terribly angry to see a portion of the park go, I just don't want a substation there.
That being said, I like the look of faux-facade portions of the new design, I like the look of the windows and accents. It's not good enough overall though. I agree that the walls need to be higher, I believe they said the wall is 18 feet at its tallest in the current design, if that's the case then it should probably be more like 24 feet and it should retain that height all the way around. It also shouldn't have a stark transition from a facade-like wall to just a plain wall, the faux-facade should wrap all the way around the site and the more detailed windowed sections should completely line the Washington and Malcolm X facades. The BWL is doing something controversial and even legally questionable, it's on them to go above and beyond to make it up the citizens, especially neighbors of the park.
I really like the idea of allowing some sort of 'portal' to site, perhaps even a small interior portion built into the facade to allow viewing of the site, have displays explaining what it does and so on. It could even be a sort of mini museum, similar to what power companies might put near a dam.
The idea of turning the substation structures into sculptures of some sort is also a good one, I've seen pictures of some pretty interesting transmission towers:
All of this seems like wishful thinking. We're lucky we're even getting the proposal above out of them, and if anything, that is probably more than what they end up doing. They can do decent power plants, but we're talking a substation, here. Almost no one does fancy substations, anymore, and I don't expect the BWL to do any more than what they are putting out there. It's precisely why we don't put modern substations in prominent areas if we can help it, because they aren't going to be made to look nice. The cost is just too high.
Back in the olden days when they were smaller, they often put them inside buildings like we see across some parts of the city, but you're not going to get anything this large to look "nice" in a way anyone wants it to. It's been like pulling teeth to even get a decorative wall into the plan without the unrealistic expectations of benches, and fancier designs, and museums, and what-not. We're talking about a small-city utility in a not particularly wealthy town, here.
We should expect more of the BWL, they're a publicly owned entity relatively flush with cash. There's absolutely no reason not to expect more, whether we get it is irrelevant. If no one through a fit in the first place we could very well be looking at portions of the wall being chain link fence with barbed wire. I understand there's still one charrette and I'm not likely to get there, I truly wish I could be there because I would like to at least throw some of these ideas out there.
Look at this substation soon to be built in Seattle: Seattle Is Building the Coolest Electrical Substation Ever
As a community we have to start expecting more or Lansing will continue to lose out to more demanding, more ambitious cities. Everything here ends up half-assed and it's tiring.
Thank you for an interesting discussion, and it's true we have been forced to admit that this awful thing is going to happen, and it truly pains me to look over there now thinking about spring and what that will mean for this little peaceful corner. It feels to me like the whole country is now filled with people who can no longer see right from wrong and make decisions with no sense of community or even humanity. The BWL is trying to make right from wrong with some happy talk and pretty pictures. The real fact is, who is going to linger in these plazas on S Washington, sit there facing the traffic in the blazing sun? Take a look at the benches installed along S. Cedar near 496, have you ever seen anyone just sitting and relaxing on one of those benches as the traffic exhaust blows over them.The same will happen in front a fake building with no one inside. I can see wind swept litter collecting dead space. Just as with the tree cuts they have framed this whole thing as the bully who knows what is best, if you don't go a long you are some sort of tree huger[ which I am!]. So yes we should ask better of the BWL which we own not the other way, and demand the most beautiful sub station ever built, or build it somewhere else. No more half-assed Lansing!
On the point of desolate, underused areas, the main reason I didn't like the way Scott Park was set up was that between the river, the park and the freeway there are three "dead" blocks along Washington at an important transition point if REO Town and Downtown are to ever become more cohesive. I do think even the best of the recently proposed options will make things worse, but given the right design, I do think this substation could actually be a net positive to the area. I don't realistically think we'll get that design, but we should have. It's just that we as a community sold ourselves short, me included for not showing up to any meetings or charrettes, or doing much of anything else.
On BWL specifically, there seemed to be some sort of shift around when they changed their logo and painted the Dye plant goofy colors while also replacing its neon sign with a cheap backlit plastic one. I was surprised then and now that no one cared more about seeing that building painted like that. That concrete was left unfinished as intended for decades just to be unceremoniously painted over in tacky colors, I'd guess that it will be difficult and expensive (if not impossible) to restore to it's unfinished state. I don't know what's going on at the BWL, there's some very poor decisions being made, but then they do a lot of good too, including building the REO Town power plant.