@The_Lansing_Magnate On the subject of where Lansing will be in 10 years, it's a fun thing to think about for me so I'll take some guesses... I think that at this point the Michigan Ave corridor and downtown East Lansing are essentially sure bets to see an increasing amount of development if the local governments don't stand in the way too much, the growth in those two areas should be very impressive. REO Town and Old Town will both likely continue to grow and improve at a steady pace and I'd be surprised if there's not finally some significant new mixed use developments in both areas ten years from now. I think the southside will prove mostly stable for better or worse, S Cedar may go through a growth spurt though. In particular I'm really hoping to see a renovated Walter French and a mixed use node develop somewhere along Cedar St (I like the intersection with Holmes), it' d also be nice to see the Kmart property quickly reused.
What worries me is how well downtown west of the river will do, as has been discussed here before, it's been a little neglected as of late. I'd bet there will be a new building or two from LCC, I wouldn't be surprised if the State built a new building and there's still a possibility of a new City/county justice complex regardless of what happens with city hall, but those are all government projects. There hasn't been any luck getting new residential or mixed use downtown, I'm not sure if it's the developer's lack of faith or the bank's but hopefully someone takes a chance sooner rather than later.
As for all the businesses, galleries and all the other fun/cool things come with an increase in the number and density of people and disposable income. When your like Lansing and you have the state government, MSU, you're an emerging insurance hub and you have a very strong manufacturing sector I believe there's enough outside people and money coming in and out where it should be a case of 'if you build it they will come'. If you build it right anyways.
I stopped by to see the sculpture, and I found it to be very cool, and interesting to look at. It is easy to walk around it and seems to there to stay as it attached to the ground below the bridge. I would guess we will find out who paid for this at the dedication. I had heard nothing about the sculpture and it's very surprising that Lansing has put this down right in the middle of downtown. It is fun to turn the gears, and the polished steal really reflects the color of the sky very nicely. I am hoping that maintenance is going to ongoing, it is right on the sidewalk it will no doubt be vandalized.
@hood: I pretty much agree with you. When I was looking up the GDP of Lansing, I was impressed to see how well Lansing weathered the last recession. To have an economy diversified enough to pull that off in the Rust Belt is huge. Mid-sized cities with strong economies are hoovering up population right now from small and mid-sized cities that didn't make as strong of a transition into a 21st century economy. People want something familiar, but with more job opportunities. Lansing is positioned well to take advantage of that trend.
I meet a lot of people that moved to Lansing from cities like Jackson, Saginaw, Benton Harbor and equivalent places in Ohio and Indiana. I was talking to an urban planner recently and he viewed 500,000 people as the cut-off point for a metro area in the 21st century. If you're under that and you're not really close to a larger metro, it's going to be tough. Luckily Lansing is close enough to that number, and it can feed off some of the Detroit-Ann Arbor sprawl in Livingston. I know Lansing contractors get work out there quite a bit.
I agree that Lansing is positioned to do very well in the next decade. The area seems to already be a draw from both cities that have little growth or opportunity, and from places that have become just too expensive to live comfortably. I often ask people I come in contact with if they are from Lansing, and only a handful have answered yes. So it seems to be true that a lot of people have moved here mostly from other mid-western places. Outside of the mid-west, our beautiful affordable smart hard working city is almost unheard of. That is something I think we could easily change. GM will be challenged to determine where the automobile is going in our lives. There is a big shift to electric and perhaps self-driving vehicles, they will have to keep up with these trends, if they don't it could be trouble for Lansing.
I think GM isn't as big of a deal as it used to be in Lansing. I think at this point it's larger in people's heads than in reality.
Don't get me wrong. GM is still one of the top employers in the region, and if the company up and left it would leave a huge hole south of downtown. But Lansing has an insurance company that hires as much as GM now. MSU has twice the employees, the state government triple.
GM leaving or greatly shedding workforce would probably bring growth in Lansing back to zero for awhile. The region would get stuck in a holding pattern. But the economy would eventually bounce back, I think.
I do worry for Michigan's auto industry. Between Tesla and all the self-driving tech coming out of California, Michigan is no longer leading innovation in the auto industry. I have been presently surprised by GM's investment in Lyft, though. I doubted that move at first, but this year Lyft has surged to take almost a third of the ridesharing market. Uber used to control over 90% of the market. So maybe GM has gotten on the ball more there.
GM is much bigger than you think in Lansing when you factor in all the suppliers, they're scattered everywhere around the area, many with hundreds of employees themselves. I think it's fairly safe to say that of the four major economic legs of the Lansing area MSU has the most impact, but after that GM and its suppliers have as good a case as any for second place.
Don't worry about Tesla too much, despite the hype they're a very small manufacturer right now, mass producing cars is extremely complicated and they're not going to be able to grow as quickly as they'd like. For some perspective, it was reported in September that Tesla had produced it's 250,000th vehicle since it's founding in 2008, in 2015 when the Delta Township plant produced three models they made 267,000 vehicles, GM made almost 10 million vehicles that year. According to many GM also has one of the best autonomous systems out of anyone in the new Cadillacs and pretty much all manufacturers are fielding or developing something comparable. I wouldn't worry about Michigan's auto industry too much unless there's something to worry about with the global auto industry.
What GM and its suppliers offers is a livable wage for people without a formal education or skilled trades, I think it's an important component of the job mix here in the region. I understand that the workers have to seek training and education at some point- but it would really hurt the working class economy if this disappeared in the near term.
I do not agree that most GM workers are poorly educated and lack skills. These folks have to do much of their work on computers and with robotic machines. Their work requires intelligence and skill. They build very intricately sophisticated vehicles.
I guess we would survive without GM, just from a psychological standpoint, I think it would be depressing to see GM leave Lansing. I was not here when they tore down the Olds plant, but that must have been very depressing to witness. That being said I do believe that GM is on top of the new technology and will be in Lansing for many years to come. I was saying "what if" GM does not keep up. I think they will. It would be good if in ten years there were lots of different types of businesses offering employment to workers at all levels.
@gbdinlansing - My comments weren't meant to be disparaging, but I think it's just a matter of fact. I have friends that work at GM. They don't have degrees or skilled trades training. They're still talented, smart, and skilled in what they do- and they do well at GM. They'd also likely do well in other manufacturing, but if GM were to disappear- would those other jobs be around? That's the kicker.
That said- of course there are engineers and skilled trademan and women at GM. I just don't think they make up "most" of the crew here in town.
@hood: GM has cut its Greater Lansing labor force in half this century. The only big-time supplier here is Demmer, with under 1,000 employees. There are quite a few smaller suppliers, too, but how many employees are we talking about total? Another thousand? The state government is a bigger deal, with triple the employees of GM, plus the attendant nonprofits and organizations it attracts.
GM, from the numbers, is in a battle with the insurance industry for the third pillar in Lansing's economy, IMO. It's psychologically huge here but has been consolidating in Detroit this entire century. The auto industry's big deal is that it can provide great jobs without a college education. I think that's why it's obsessed over to such a degree. But the numbers don't back it up as being a top dog.
Comments
@The_Lansing_Magnate On the subject of where Lansing will be in 10 years, it's a fun thing to think about for me so I'll take some guesses... I think that at this point the Michigan Ave corridor and downtown East Lansing are essentially sure bets to see an increasing amount of development if the local governments don't stand in the way too much, the growth in those two areas should be very impressive. REO Town and Old Town will both likely continue to grow and improve at a steady pace and I'd be surprised if there's not finally some significant new mixed use developments in both areas ten years from now. I think the southside will prove mostly stable for better or worse, S Cedar may go through a growth spurt though. In particular I'm really hoping to see a renovated Walter French and a mixed use node develop somewhere along Cedar St (I like the intersection with Holmes), it' d also be nice to see the Kmart property quickly reused.
What worries me is how well downtown west of the river will do, as has been discussed here before, it's been a little neglected as of late. I'd bet there will be a new building or two from LCC, I wouldn't be surprised if the State built a new building and there's still a possibility of a new City/county justice complex regardless of what happens with city hall, but those are all government projects. There hasn't been any luck getting new residential or mixed use downtown, I'm not sure if it's the developer's lack of faith or the bank's but hopefully someone takes a chance sooner rather than later.
As for all the businesses, galleries and all the other fun/cool things come with an increase in the number and density of people and disposable income. When your like Lansing and you have the state government, MSU, you're an emerging insurance hub and you have a very strong manufacturing sector I believe there's enough outside people and money coming in and out where it should be a case of 'if you build it they will come'. If you build it right anyways.
I stopped by to see the sculpture, and I found it to be very cool, and interesting to look at. It is easy to walk around it and seems to there to stay as it attached to the ground below the bridge. I would guess we will find out who paid for this at the dedication. I had heard nothing about the sculpture and it's very surprising that Lansing has put this down right in the middle of downtown. It is fun to turn the gears, and the polished steal really reflects the color of the sky very nicely. I am hoping that maintenance is going to ongoing, it is right on the sidewalk it will no doubt be vandalized.
@hood: I pretty much agree with you. When I was looking up the GDP of Lansing, I was impressed to see how well Lansing weathered the last recession. To have an economy diversified enough to pull that off in the Rust Belt is huge. Mid-sized cities with strong economies are hoovering up population right now from small and mid-sized cities that didn't make as strong of a transition into a 21st century economy. People want something familiar, but with more job opportunities. Lansing is positioned well to take advantage of that trend.
I meet a lot of people that moved to Lansing from cities like Jackson, Saginaw, Benton Harbor and equivalent places in Ohio and Indiana. I was talking to an urban planner recently and he viewed 500,000 people as the cut-off point for a metro area in the 21st century. If you're under that and you're not really close to a larger metro, it's going to be tough. Luckily Lansing is close enough to that number, and it can feed off some of the Detroit-Ann Arbor sprawl in Livingston. I know Lansing contractors get work out there quite a bit.
I agree that Lansing is positioned to do very well in the next decade. The area seems to already be a draw from both cities that have little growth or opportunity, and from places that have become just too expensive to live comfortably. I often ask people I come in contact with if they are from Lansing, and only a handful have answered yes. So it seems to be true that a lot of people have moved here mostly from other mid-western places. Outside of the mid-west, our beautiful affordable smart hard working city is almost unheard of. That is something I think we could easily change. GM will be challenged to determine where the automobile is going in our lives. There is a big shift to electric and perhaps self-driving vehicles, they will have to keep up with these trends, if they don't it could be trouble for Lansing.
I think GM isn't as big of a deal as it used to be in Lansing. I think at this point it's larger in people's heads than in reality.
Don't get me wrong. GM is still one of the top employers in the region, and if the company up and left it would leave a huge hole south of downtown. But Lansing has an insurance company that hires as much as GM now. MSU has twice the employees, the state government triple.
GM leaving or greatly shedding workforce would probably bring growth in Lansing back to zero for awhile. The region would get stuck in a holding pattern. But the economy would eventually bounce back, I think.
I do worry for Michigan's auto industry. Between Tesla and all the self-driving tech coming out of California, Michigan is no longer leading innovation in the auto industry. I have been presently surprised by GM's investment in Lyft, though. I doubted that move at first, but this year Lyft has surged to take almost a third of the ridesharing market. Uber used to control over 90% of the market. So maybe GM has gotten on the ball more there.
GM is much bigger than you think in Lansing when you factor in all the suppliers, they're scattered everywhere around the area, many with hundreds of employees themselves. I think it's fairly safe to say that of the four major economic legs of the Lansing area MSU has the most impact, but after that GM and its suppliers have as good a case as any for second place.
Don't worry about Tesla too much, despite the hype they're a very small manufacturer right now, mass producing cars is extremely complicated and they're not going to be able to grow as quickly as they'd like. For some perspective, it was reported in September that Tesla had produced it's 250,000th vehicle since it's founding in 2008, in 2015 when the Delta Township plant produced three models they made 267,000 vehicles, GM made almost 10 million vehicles that year. According to many GM also has one of the best autonomous systems out of anyone in the new Cadillacs and pretty much all manufacturers are fielding or developing something comparable. I wouldn't worry about Michigan's auto industry too much unless there's something to worry about with the global auto industry.
What GM and its suppliers offers is a livable wage for people without a formal education or skilled trades, I think it's an important component of the job mix here in the region. I understand that the workers have to seek training and education at some point- but it would really hurt the working class economy if this disappeared in the near term.
I do not agree that most GM workers are poorly educated and lack skills. These folks have to do much of their work on computers and with robotic machines. Their work requires intelligence and skill. They build very intricately sophisticated vehicles.
I guess we would survive without GM, just from a psychological standpoint, I think it would be depressing to see GM leave Lansing. I was not here when they tore down the Olds plant, but that must have been very depressing to witness. That being said I do believe that GM is on top of the new technology and will be in Lansing for many years to come. I was saying "what if" GM does not keep up. I think they will. It would be good if in ten years there were lots of different types of businesses offering employment to workers at all levels.
@gbdinlansing - My comments weren't meant to be disparaging, but I think it's just a matter of fact. I have friends that work at GM. They don't have degrees or skilled trades training. They're still talented, smart, and skilled in what they do- and they do well at GM. They'd also likely do well in other manufacturing, but if GM were to disappear- would those other jobs be around? That's the kicker.
That said- of course there are engineers and skilled trademan and women at GM. I just don't think they make up "most" of the crew here in town.
@hood: GM has cut its Greater Lansing labor force in half this century. The only big-time supplier here is Demmer, with under 1,000 employees. There are quite a few smaller suppliers, too, but how many employees are we talking about total? Another thousand? The state government is a bigger deal, with triple the employees of GM, plus the attendant nonprofits and organizations it attracts.
GM, from the numbers, is in a battle with the insurance industry for the third pillar in Lansing's economy, IMO. It's psychologically huge here but has been consolidating in Detroit this entire century. The auto industry's big deal is that it can provide great jobs without a college education. I think that's why it's obsessed over to such a degree. But the numbers don't back it up as being a top dog.