What are the odds that if the entire block is developed that utilities will get buried? Being out in the Sacramento area for so long now, one thing that always strikes me when I go back to Lansing is how many utility poles and overhead wires there are in the city core. Out here almost everything is buried. You just don't see a lot of overhead lines like that until you start to get further out.
It's great to see that Gillespie is looking at a larger redevelopment for that corner. One thing I'd like to see is for him to build a street from Michigan to Barnard. If he owns the dispensary building he could just extend Pere Marquette across Michigan to tie the development in better with the surrounding area. The site really seems too large to not do something like that.
As for uses, there will obviously be apartments and retail but I'm sort of expecting a hotel, most likely at the corner of Larch & Michigan. I wouldn't want to guess how big it could be but I would be equally unsurprised whether it were a 4 floor express hotel or a 12+ floor full service hotel.
This development could be great and as always I'm anxious to see the plans. Something about this has me feeling that it could move relatively quick.
I guess we already talked this idea over, but I really think that if Cedar and Larch were two-way streets it would make all properties on both sides of both streets more attractive and accessible for developers and residents.
There are a lot of good reasons to put utility lines underground, trees, ice storms, ascetics. The gigantic line poles the BWL is putting up on the west side are a good example of ugly. As are the trees in the area that have had their utility cut. If we had millions of pot tax money to do it, I could see rebuilding our downtown street grid from below ground up, depressing utilities, modernizing water, and sewer lines, and repaving the streets with new permeable materials to allow rainwater to drain and not go into storm sewers and rivers. I have this idea that the BWL could put some sort of steam lines in the streets and sidewalks that would warm the surface, melting ice and snow. It would be so cool if all the streets and sidewalks downtown were free of ice and snow all winter long without even plowing. Then maybe then the plows might be free come to my street!
Yeah, I'm pretty miffed at BWL's approach to line maintenance. I think it has a lot to do with their penny-pinching nature and a general unwillingness to do anything different. I remember seeing somewhere that it costs about $1 million dollars per mile to bury power lines. This is probably a low estimate, but at that rate, all the exisiting lines along the major routes/city centers in Lansing and East Lansing (Saginaw, K-zoo, Grand River, Cedar/Larch, Stadium district, MLK, Mt. Hope, Frandor, Abbot, Burcham, Coolidge, Lake Lansing Rd., etc.) for 10s of millions of dollars... not an obscene amount of money IMO...
...which makes me wonder how much burying the lines would save in the long term over maintaining overhead wires that are exposed to the elements and weather and tree growth...
I've been in favor of burying utilities for awhile, it's something I've brought up from time to time here on the forum. I'm glad to see that other people agree that it's something worth looking into, I would really like to hear from the BWL what the costs would be and I'd agree that starting with the major corridors would be a good starting point.
Telephone poles and wires are eyesores in and of themselves, add in the tree trimming required to keep the wires clear and it adds up to a significant negative impact on the look and feel of an area. Burying utilities, along with things like planting trees in the right of way, going back to old-style street lamps and simply maintaining the streets will go a long ways towards making Lansing's neighborhoods more desirable.
5 year Trimming Plan! That thought makes me a little sick. If they did a better job, and not just butcher the poor trees into these un-natural sad shapes, it would be nice. They say they "try" to cut conservatively but that is not what it looks like. Once those crews get going speed is the only thing they really consider, they are private contractors it's how many and how fast, not let's do a proper trim. There is a process called "pollarding" that keeps trees in certain manageable shapes and sizes. Many cities do this. It does require more frequent attention but the trees can have a nice more attractive full shape with smaller leafy branches that cause less trouble for lines.
I've never heard of Priggooris Park and Holly park either. In Googling, it appears Priggooris Park is north of Park Lake in Bath.
Holly Park appears to be a neighborhood in Lansing, northeast of Holmes and Pleasant Grove Rds.
Looks like the city is now asking for proposals that include building a NEW building for city hall, not just for renovating an existing building. Each developer is proposing a different downtown location:
_"Boji Group proposed putting a new City Hall at the northeast corner of South Grand Avenue and Lenawee Street. Boji said Thursday that the group plans to propose building at the same site. Under their proposal, he said, the new city hall would be adjacent to either apartments or a hotel.
Karp and Associates proposed putting a new City Hall and police station at at the corner of St. Joseph Street and Washington Avenue.
Urban Systems suggested using the former Lake Trust building on the southeast corner of Capitol Avenue and Lenawee Street. The credit union recently finalized the sale of the building to the development group. "_
At this point, I can't say I have a favorite spot - I'm just glad to see that in any case, there will be some infill over downtown surface lots and some much needed development on the south end of downtown Lansing.
I am wondering if the Mayor wants these proposed plans resubmitted or wants newly revised plans. I like parts of each plan and really do not like others. I had not seen the St. Joesph Street drawings before. I like the location and the interesting design, the huge letters are kind of strange but interesting. I do not like the Boji or Urban Systems plan for the current City Hall. I am hoping he wants them to revisit their plans.
gbd - the article indicates that Beitler Real Estate Services is still going to do the redevelopment of the current city hall building, but that they've reopened proposals for the new city hall building.
I can see why the city went with Beitler for renovating the old city hall - they offered the best plan to update the site while preserving its distinctive mid-century architecture. Boji's plans for the current and future city hall were the worst, IMO... totally generic and cheap looking. I'm OK with the proposals from Karp and Urban Design - they both have nice, modern looking design elements, although the Karp proposal for the new city hall seems to be a rather small building.
Comments
What are the odds that if the entire block is developed that utilities will get buried? Being out in the Sacramento area for so long now, one thing that always strikes me when I go back to Lansing is how many utility poles and overhead wires there are in the city core. Out here almost everything is buried. You just don't see a lot of overhead lines like that until you start to get further out.
It's great to see that Gillespie is looking at a larger redevelopment for that corner. One thing I'd like to see is for him to build a street from Michigan to Barnard. If he owns the dispensary building he could just extend Pere Marquette across Michigan to tie the development in better with the surrounding area. The site really seems too large to not do something like that.
As for uses, there will obviously be apartments and retail but I'm sort of expecting a hotel, most likely at the corner of Larch & Michigan. I wouldn't want to guess how big it could be but I would be equally unsurprised whether it were a 4 floor express hotel or a 12+ floor full service hotel.
This development could be great and as always I'm anxious to see the plans. Something about this has me feeling that it could move relatively quick.
I guess we already talked this idea over, but I really think that if Cedar and Larch were two-way streets it would make all properties on both sides of both streets more attractive and accessible for developers and residents.
There are a lot of good reasons to put utility lines underground, trees, ice storms, ascetics. The gigantic line poles the BWL is putting up on the west side are a good example of ugly. As are the trees in the area that have had their utility cut. If we had millions of pot tax money to do it, I could see rebuilding our downtown street grid from below ground up, depressing utilities, modernizing water, and sewer lines, and repaving the streets with new permeable materials to allow rainwater to drain and not go into storm sewers and rivers. I have this idea that the BWL could put some sort of steam lines in the streets and sidewalks that would warm the surface, melting ice and snow. It would be so cool if all the streets and sidewalks downtown were free of ice and snow all winter long without even plowing. Then maybe then the plows might be free come to my street!
Yeah, I'm pretty miffed at BWL's approach to line maintenance. I think it has a lot to do with their penny-pinching nature and a general unwillingness to do anything different. I remember seeing somewhere that it costs about $1 million dollars per mile to bury power lines. This is probably a low estimate, but at that rate, all the exisiting lines along the major routes/city centers in Lansing and East Lansing (Saginaw, K-zoo, Grand River, Cedar/Larch, Stadium district, MLK, Mt. Hope, Frandor, Abbot, Burcham, Coolidge, Lake Lansing Rd., etc.) for 10s of millions of dollars... not an obscene amount of money IMO...
...which makes me wonder how much burying the lines would save in the long term over maintaining overhead wires that are exposed to the elements and weather and tree growth...
I've been in favor of burying utilities for awhile, it's something I've brought up from time to time here on the forum. I'm glad to see that other people agree that it's something worth looking into, I would really like to hear from the BWL what the costs would be and I'd agree that starting with the major corridors would be a good starting point.
Telephone poles and wires are eyesores in and of themselves, add in the tree trimming required to keep the wires clear and it adds up to a significant negative impact on the look and feel of an area. Burying utilities, along with things like planting trees in the right of way, going back to old-style street lamps and simply maintaining the streets will go a long ways towards making Lansing's neighborhoods more desirable.
5 year Trimming Plan! That thought makes me a little sick. If they did a better job, and not just butcher the poor trees into these un-natural sad shapes, it would be nice. They say they "try" to cut conservatively but that is not what it looks like. Once those crews get going speed is the only thing they really consider, they are private contractors it's how many and how fast, not let's do a proper trim. There is a process called "pollarding" that keeps trees in certain manageable shapes and sizes. Many cities do this. It does require more frequent attention but the trees can have a nice more attractive full shape with smaller leafy branches that cause less trouble for lines.
I've never heard of Priggooris Park and Holly park either. In Googling, it appears Priggooris Park is north of Park Lake in Bath.
Holly Park appears to be a neighborhood in Lansing, northeast of Holmes and Pleasant Grove Rds.
I thought there was a dedicated thread for Lansing City Hall info, but I couldn't find it...
Anyhow, there are some interesting updates in this article from the LSJ:
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2018/02/15/re-submittal-opportunity-announced-new-city-hall-location/340459002/
Looks like the city is now asking for proposals that include building a NEW building for city hall, not just for renovating an existing building. Each developer is proposing a different downtown location:
_"Boji Group proposed putting a new City Hall at the northeast corner of South Grand Avenue and Lenawee Street. Boji said Thursday that the group plans to propose building at the same site. Under their proposal, he said, the new city hall would be adjacent to either apartments or a hotel.
Karp and Associates proposed putting a new City Hall and police station at at the corner of St. Joseph Street and Washington Avenue.
Urban Systems suggested using the former Lake Trust building on the southeast corner of Capitol Avenue and Lenawee Street. The credit union recently finalized the sale of the building to the development group. "_
At this point, I can't say I have a favorite spot - I'm just glad to see that in any case, there will be some infill over downtown surface lots and some much needed development on the south end of downtown Lansing.
I am wondering if the Mayor wants these proposed plans resubmitted or wants newly revised plans. I like parts of each plan and really do not like others. I had not seen the St. Joesph Street drawings before. I like the location and the interesting design, the huge letters are kind of strange but interesting. I do not like the Boji or Urban Systems plan for the current City Hall. I am hoping he wants them to revisit their plans.
gbd - the article indicates that Beitler Real Estate Services is still going to do the redevelopment of the current city hall building, but that they've reopened proposals for the new city hall building.
I can see why the city went with Beitler for renovating the old city hall - they offered the best plan to update the site while preserving its distinctive mid-century architecture. Boji's plans for the current and future city hall were the worst, IMO... totally generic and cheap looking. I'm OK with the proposals from Karp and Urban Design - they both have nice, modern looking design elements, although the Karp proposal for the new city hall seems to be a rather small building.