How could they identify demand when there's nothing on Grand Ave and no similar space has been built anywhere downtown west of the river? I don't think looking at COVID-era retail vacancy rates are much use either. Not to mention that between City View, Tower on Grand and these LHC buildings we're talking around 600 new units within a few blocks, probably over 1000 new nearby residents.
It sucks to see these Grand Ave projects getting minimal or no retail. I cannot understate how much of a joke it is that our city's main downtown shopping/entertainment district is basically four blocks (or really just the two blocks from Michigan to Washtenaw) of storefronts along one street. Downtown Lansing will never not be a joke as long as that's true. Even little Kalamazoo has Lansing handily beat when it comes to a cohesive and walkable shopping & entertainment district.
I have noticed that retail space in my building right in downtown East Lansing has not been fully leased out in the building built in 2019, as well as the newer buildings along Michigan Avenue all have never rented retail space. I often think if landlords would offer an affordable rent for startup businesses rather than owning an empty space there may be some more storefronts open in our retail districts. I think the new developments are going to have more housing units. It seems like Lansing has never really had a good plan for the downtown district, starting with its destruction for the '60s '70s urban renewal that turned downtown into an office park. Kalamazoo had one oof the first pedestrian malls in their downtown, from the start it was a better project. Now that we have people moving back downtown, there need to be stores and services for those people.
I'd love to know at what price point retail space in a new mid rise or 5-over-1 becomes viable. A lot of times developers of new buildings are picky about their commercial tenants which is part of it, another reason is that developers and real estate agents in some areas seem to like to keep rents high to bump up the rental market and/or to support certain market valuations for their properties, it's more evident in some super high demand markets in big cities. I don't understand the economics of it all, a lot of factors go into those decisions and not everyone in the industry seems to agree with the strategy. Provident Place wants $16.50/psf which is high for that stretch of Michigan Ave and pushing the limits of what I'd expect a local business to want to pay but it's not expensive in the grand scheme of things. Downtown EL has some properties asking $35/psf, the Vista at Eastwood is $25-$27/psf, older strip malls along W Saginaw seem to run $11-$17/psf.
New Vision has not done one thing necessary through planning and zoning for their supposed projects.
I'll take a look at the parcel splits/combinations. I'm not the GIS person but it seems like every time an update is pushed, something wonky happens. Some things get reset, weird attributes get turned on or off. But I'm not in the inner workings of that file so all i can do is relay.
I've been advocating for a more useful parcel viewer like NYC's for years.
@MichMatters That public safety building site plan is different than the one you posted from the planning commission meeting on August 3rd. This most recent one looks more like the plan that had been posted awhile back and shared in a WKAR story. I assume what's in the committee of the whole is the final plan, but I liked what you posted back in August better.
@citykid Very disappointing to hear that about New Vison. I really thought there's no way they'd screw up $40 million in free money but I may be proven wrong.
The lack of a parking garage and a completely different condensed building footprint that was likely one or two floors taller would have been a pretty big plus imo. Not quite making up for all the front yard parking but still notably better.
Yeah, I'm saying this is about the same as the rendering I posted awhile back. Different than the site plan you recently shared that I thought was an updated plan.
Site plan you shared in an August 2nd post on this thread:
I do not want to stick my nose in Council's agendas, but the screenshot pulled from Planning Commission's August 7 packet, with the parking garage, that @hood just reposted, is the approved site plan and what is being built. Someone over there uploaded old presentation materials to the packet and those should not be taken as current.
Just want to reiterate that police concerns are the reason there is a big front yard parking lot, no one else wanted to allow that, but they trumped.
Good to hear that it will be the version with the parking garage.
I get that the Feds have their design guidelines/requirements for these sorts of facilities but I'm fairly certain they could have been satisfied with barriers similar to the downtown MSP HQ, it sucks that forces within the police department got their way on this one. I'm sure it would have taken the mayor to battle the police on that front but it's certainly a hill I would have been willing to die on if I were in the position to.
@citykid Any chance there's public renderings floating around of the newer design? Or even floor count/square footage figures?
Comments
It sucks to see these Grand Ave projects getting minimal or no retail. I cannot understate how much of a joke it is that our city's main downtown shopping/entertainment district is basically four blocks (or really just the two blocks from Michigan to Washtenaw) of storefronts along one street. Downtown Lansing will never not be a joke as long as that's true. Even little Kalamazoo has Lansing handily beat when it comes to a cohesive and walkable shopping & entertainment district.
I'll take a look at the parcel splits/combinations. I'm not the GIS person but it seems like every time an update is pushed, something wonky happens. Some things get reset, weird attributes get turned on or off. But I'm not in the inner workings of that file so all i can do is relay.
I've been advocating for a more useful parcel viewer like NYC's for years.
@citykid Very disappointing to hear that about New Vison. I really thought there's no way they'd screw up $40 million in free money but I may be proven wrong.
Site plan you shared in an August 2nd post on this thread:
Just want to reiterate that police concerns are the reason there is a big front yard parking lot, no one else wanted to allow that, but they trumped.
I get that the Feds have their design guidelines/requirements for these sorts of facilities but I'm fairly certain they could have been satisfied with barriers similar to the downtown MSP HQ, it sucks that forces within the police department got their way on this one. I'm sure it would have taken the mayor to battle the police on that front but it's certainly a hill I would have been willing to die on if I were in the position to.
@citykid Any chance there's public renderings floating around of the newer design? Or even floor count/square footage figures?