I think and hope you are right about the depictions they might be just computer drawn ideas of where the buildings will be located. I was more hopeful about the project after reading the City Pulse article, with the interview of the developer. After all the work and money that has already gone into this, it was my impression that they are not going to do this cheaply. I also looked at the other projects that were pointed out in the story and I was impressed by the quality of those buildings. I personally am more excited about the drain restoration project, which is going to be a rare "nicer than it has to be", project!.
Same feelings here on the CP article, the 3D renderings looking north make the whole project look much better than how it looked in the LSJ article. And the large water feature in the wetlands looks great! My major concerns at this point are:
Doing a far better job on the design of the assisted living building. IMO, this building should wrap around the corner of Mich Ave & S. Homer St., and include some commercial space on the first floor.
Better quality materials and more architectural distinctiveness than what appears in the current plans. Sure, it would be nice to get taller buildings, but as long as they are not all exactly the same height and exactly the same design, I can live with it. Hopefully, as some have suggested, the current renderings are placeholders with better quality plans to come in the near future.
STOP CUTTING DOWN MATURE TREES!!! I'm tired of seeing developers clear cut lots of nice, mature trees that could be easily be saved and incorporated into the final design. Or at least selectively be removed and replaced over time. If you look at the renderings of the median along Mich Ave., it looks like the developers are likely going to redo the landscaping to include a water feature; in some renderings the median looks bare of trees, and in others, it looks like some new ones will be planted. Even the larger wetlands water feature (which I like) looks to involve the removal of some large trees in the riparian zone of the Red Cedar, which is not cool...
The media doesn't have anything to do with the private side of the project, rather the public side (Drain Commissioner's Montgomery Drain restoration). All of Frandor is going to be redone with rain gardens and such, which is what you see in the redone median. You're not going to be able to keep the existing trees with that. Not only are the trees no uniformly placed, but rain gardens require smaller trees.
I think people forget that the private development is secondary to the redoing of the Montgomery Drain, which is how this project began. The city is being required to stop all of the polluted run-off from the Montgomery Drain (Frandor, basically) going straight into the Red Cedar uncleaned. The two ways to accomplish this are expensive expansions of/construction of new water treatment plants or the more natural take. The long-time Ingham County Drain Commissioner is big on the more natural cleaning of drains. In fact, he's pretty nationally known for it as Lansing is a leader on this. I'm actually more excited about the Montgomery Drain redo than the afterthough private development portion of this project.
Mich - I do understand there will need to be major drain reroutings as part of this project, and I do see that as a good thing, not only for aesthetic reasons but also to reduce parking lot runoff pollution from Frandor. I also get that the path of least resistance towards doing all of the water re-routing will be clear cutting of any mature trees that stand in the way.
That said, there are plenty of examples where money/resources are allocated to save trees during major construction projects... for example the stalled development that plans to save the heritage oak-tree the east side of East Lansing, or when U-M moved that huge tree (at huge expense, of course...) while renovating their business school. It can be done, and considering the multi-millions of dollars being spent on this development, SOME effort could be expended in preserving more of the existing mature trees.
PS - I thought I saw you mention that there would be a venue for additional public input on this project... do you have any further details (time, place, etc.)? Thanks!
Mich - looks like we were typing at the same time... in response to your second paragraph, I am also exited that the Drain Commission has chosen to use a natural cleaning approach.
In regards to design/clear cutting of the large wetlands area, I'm fairly sure the pool of water is just a placeholder, as the plans indicate "design to be determined in coordination with Ingham County Drain Commission". I'd expect (hope) most of the standing trees to remain there, as they are already wetland adapted species, unless there needs to be a considerable amount of earth removal.
In regards to the waterway running through the median, this almost certainly appears to be a drain or dry creek bed, that connects drainage from Frandor to the drainage on the south side of Michigan Ave. I don't think this area would be considered a rain garden at all - those are typically established in small, low-lying areas that naturally pool water, not for transporting water over long distances. Sure, the current landscape layout is pretty regular, as the trees that were planted long ago were planted for landscaping purposes, and not drainage. However, I still think a natural-looking drain/creek bed could relatively easily be routed through this median without cutting down every large tree.
When I look at the recent flood pictures I can see where this cove or pond may be, it looks like an area already cleared of trees or did not have any to start with.
You may be correct gbd - it is hard to tell for sure where the big pond is going to be. It looks to me, however, like it is going to be almost entirely within the area bounded to the W, S, and E by the thin yellow lines in the CP pic... this area looks to have at least a few stands of large trees:
Although... the photo image above and the currently visible google map layer may be outdated as they don't show the areas closer to Mich Ave. that have already clear cut... so it is possible that "they" already cleared out the stands of large trees in the future pond area... its difficult for me to see for sure in the flood picture... so perhaps this is moot!
It's nice to hear a lot of different viewpoints on this project. gbdinlansing - I agree that the City Pulse had better renderings (and overall better coverage) of the project. MichMatters - I was thinking the same thing regarding the drain project. That's seems to be the bigger deal here. I'm actually more excited about that aspect. Seems like the parkland here will be close - and almost connect - to the existing River Trail, which runs just south of the existing ball diamond. One thing removed from the project was the Sparrow Building, which is part of the reduced cost (I had forgotten that). On the tree cutting - If I'm remembering correctly (per the City Pulse) that this was done because a threatened species of bats nest in the area during the summer months, so as to not delay the development, the trees were cut down before the bats could arrive. (Not saying that's a good thing.)
Comments
I think and hope you are right about the depictions they might be just computer drawn ideas of where the buildings will be located. I was more hopeful about the project after reading the City Pulse article, with the interview of the developer. After all the work and money that has already gone into this, it was my impression that they are not going to do this cheaply. I also looked at the other projects that were pointed out in the story and I was impressed by the quality of those buildings. I personally am more excited about the drain restoration project, which is going to be a rare "nicer than it has to be", project!.
Same feelings here on the CP article, the 3D renderings looking north make the whole project look much better than how it looked in the LSJ article. And the large water feature in the wetlands looks great! My major concerns at this point are:
Doing a far better job on the design of the assisted living building. IMO, this building should wrap around the corner of Mich Ave & S. Homer St., and include some commercial space on the first floor.
Better quality materials and more architectural distinctiveness than what appears in the current plans. Sure, it would be nice to get taller buildings, but as long as they are not all exactly the same height and exactly the same design, I can live with it. Hopefully, as some have suggested, the current renderings are placeholders with better quality plans to come in the near future.
STOP CUTTING DOWN MATURE TREES!!! I'm tired of seeing developers clear cut lots of nice, mature trees that could be easily be saved and incorporated into the final design. Or at least selectively be removed and replaced over time. If you look at the renderings of the median along Mich Ave., it looks like the developers are likely going to redo the landscaping to include a water feature; in some renderings the median looks bare of trees, and in others, it looks like some new ones will be planted. Even the larger wetlands water feature (which I like) looks to involve the removal of some large trees in the riparian zone of the Red Cedar, which is not cool...
The media doesn't have anything to do with the private side of the project, rather the public side (Drain Commissioner's Montgomery Drain restoration). All of Frandor is going to be redone with rain gardens and such, which is what you see in the redone median. You're not going to be able to keep the existing trees with that. Not only are the trees no uniformly placed, but rain gardens require smaller trees.
I think people forget that the private development is secondary to the redoing of the Montgomery Drain, which is how this project began. The city is being required to stop all of the polluted run-off from the Montgomery Drain (Frandor, basically) going straight into the Red Cedar uncleaned. The two ways to accomplish this are expensive expansions of/construction of new water treatment plants or the more natural take. The long-time Ingham County Drain Commissioner is big on the more natural cleaning of drains. In fact, he's pretty nationally known for it as Lansing is a leader on this. I'm actually more excited about the Montgomery Drain redo than the afterthough private development portion of this project.
Mich - I do understand there will need to be major drain reroutings as part of this project, and I do see that as a good thing, not only for aesthetic reasons but also to reduce parking lot runoff pollution from Frandor. I also get that the path of least resistance towards doing all of the water re-routing will be clear cutting of any mature trees that stand in the way.
That said, there are plenty of examples where money/resources are allocated to save trees during major construction projects... for example the stalled development that plans to save the heritage oak-tree the east side of East Lansing, or when U-M moved that huge tree (at huge expense, of course...) while renovating their business school. It can be done, and considering the multi-millions of dollars being spent on this development, SOME effort could be expended in preserving more of the existing mature trees.
PS - I thought I saw you mention that there would be a venue for additional public input on this project... do you have any further details (time, place, etc.)? Thanks!
Mich - looks like we were typing at the same time... in response to your second paragraph, I am also exited that the Drain Commission has chosen to use a natural cleaning approach.
In regards to design/clear cutting of the large wetlands area, I'm fairly sure the pool of water is just a placeholder, as the plans indicate "design to be determined in coordination with Ingham County Drain Commission". I'd expect (hope) most of the standing trees to remain there, as they are already wetland adapted species, unless there needs to be a considerable amount of earth removal.
In regards to the waterway running through the median, this almost certainly appears to be a drain or dry creek bed, that connects drainage from Frandor to the drainage on the south side of Michigan Ave. I don't think this area would be considered a rain garden at all - those are typically established in small, low-lying areas that naturally pool water, not for transporting water over long distances. Sure, the current landscape layout is pretty regular, as the trees that were planted long ago were planted for landscaping purposes, and not drainage. However, I still think a natural-looking drain/creek bed could relatively easily be routed through this median without cutting down every large tree.
When I look at the recent flood pictures I can see where this cove or pond may be, it looks like an area already cleared of trees or did not have any to start with.
You may be correct gbd - it is hard to tell for sure where the big pond is going to be. It looks to me, however, like it is going to be almost entirely within the area bounded to the W, S, and E by the thin yellow lines in the CP pic... this area looks to have at least a few stands of large trees:
Although... the photo image above and the currently visible google map layer may be outdated as they don't show the areas closer to Mich Ave. that have already clear cut... so it is possible that "they" already cleared out the stands of large trees in the future pond area... its difficult for me to see for sure in the flood picture... so perhaps this is moot!
It's nice to hear a lot of different viewpoints on this project. gbdinlansing - I agree that the City Pulse had better renderings (and overall better coverage) of the project. MichMatters - I was thinking the same thing regarding the drain project. That's seems to be the bigger deal here. I'm actually more excited about that aspect. Seems like the parkland here will be close - and almost connect - to the existing River Trail, which runs just south of the existing ball diamond. One thing removed from the project was the Sparrow Building, which is part of the reduced cost (I had forgotten that). On the tree cutting - If I'm remembering correctly (per the City Pulse) that this was done because a threatened species of bats nest in the area during the summer months, so as to not delay the development, the trees were cut down before the bats could arrive. (Not saying that's a good thing.)