Tearing down all the blight and the massively underutilized, huge parking lots to the east, then getting a variance to build something tall, useful, and perfect for the site??? I say yes to that!!!
But seriously, you're probably right about the reuse of the existing building, as the fence only runs up to it, and not around it. There was an Asian market their until recently, but the Korean restaurant that shared the building right on the corner has been closed for some time.
We must be talking about different locations. You said the corner of Trowbridge and Harrison, right? It's a corner, there is nothing east of it on the same block, of course. To the west of this corner site is the old QD, and then occupied businesses (a two-story law office, a heavily patronized Taco Bell, and then a complex of occupied small offices). RIGHT behind this whole strip is the railroad tracks. These lots aren't deep enough - Ingham County property look-up shows only 112 feet deep; most single-family homes in Lansing and East Lansing site on deeper lots than this - for anything other than small, single-use businesses. You might be able to some two-story mixed use kind of stuff, but that would be about it.
Heck, the Taco Bell drive-thru barely works on its shallow lot because of the lack of depth, and the same with the Tim Hortons drive-thru across the street. There really shouldn't be any drive-thrus along here save for maybe Wendy's, which has enough depth (which allows it a significant setback) to handle the cues/stacking. Really, Trowbridge is basically an on/off-ramp; that area is never going to be walkable in any real way without disconnecting the area from the freeway. And the train tracks running almost up against street further make the area a mess as it relates to trying to develop it an urban way. There needs to be fewer curb-cuts along the street, not more.
There is really no "huge" anything between the tracks and Trowbridge west of Harrison, and east of Harrison is MSU lands. So I'm confused.
All that said, I've been generally supportive of what they've done on the north side of the street. I just wish they'd have not backed off from making it more intense development. But south of the boulevard? They'd probably just be better off with some open space and "place-making" art or something.
My bad... I did mean to the west! Very good points about the narrowness of this plot in regards to drive-throughs. I still think a high rise with well thought out first floor drive-throughs could work. I'm pretty sure I've seen considerably worse in denser urban areas, although I can't think of any specific examples at the moment.
Yeah, this is a tight space. I definitely would not like to see anymore fast food restaurants over here. (Taco Bell and Wendy's are the best anyways). There are too many real food options over here to waste space on fast food. I could see this space going either way......either as a green space with public art and maintain the view of the train station from Trowbridge, or as some sort of higher density development.
But let's face it, it's not going to be an open entry way for art. Where's the value in that? It's more valuable as parking. So, I guess I'm with Ratchet -- Why not build an 8-story housing project with commercial ground level. Market demand would fill it up immediately. True, Trowbridge will never be walkable. Who cares? The rest of the area is. A tower would get you great views of campus, south campus farms, downtown Lansing and you would be able to see the emerging skylines in EL and Frandor. With the new hospital opening not too far away, I would be all over this site as a developer.
My goal at Trowbridge would be to continue in the trend of larger urban buildings so that people arriving in town feel like they're entering a big REAL city, not some generic suburban exit.
Speak of the devil, was just looking through the Board of Zoning Appeals for East Lansing. Appears back in April the owner of the Quality Dairy site (947 Trowbridge) requested a variance - because the site is so small as I've mentioned - to reduce the number of "stacking" spots on site from 10 to 6 to accomodate a Biggby Coffee with a drive-thru. The variance was approved.
The discussion really highlighted the difficulty of the size of the parcels. One board member asked if there was enough room to add a second lane of traffic behind the property, but that wouldn't be possible because of parking setback requirements, which would require an additional variance. Basically, any kind of drive-thru business for any of these lots on this side of the street requires a variance.
I guess looking at aerials more closely you might be able to just squeeze something between the tracks and Trowbridge on that side of the street the same width as Trowbridge Village across the street, though I'm not 100% sure. Parking - if the developer felt needed to make the project profitable - would have to be on the ground floor, though, or underground. Fortunately, there is transit not that far away along Harrison. So, I guess it's possible to multi-family work on the south side of Trowbridge, too, though it'd certainly be a less pleasant environment than living on the north side of the road.
Long story short, the Quality Dairy building is being reconstructed and will house a Biggby on one side with a small drive-thru, and an unspecified business in the other half of the building. What's going into the small commercial building on the corner, I have no idea.
Yeah, I agree -- it would be TERRIFYING to be in an apt south of Trowbridge when the trains come through. I remember sleeping over at a friend's house in Spartan Village right by the tracks and when the freights passed in the night I woke up each time thinking it was a tornado or earthquake or something!!
I'm really happy to hear that Bigby is moving in to the old QD building (that will always remain the QD to me ) I commend Bigby on their choice of locations, throughout their entire existence, from small town main streets to city centers to idle strip malls in densely populated areas to up-and-coming neighborhoods. I live in Detroit and Bigby's has franchises here that came WAY ahead of Starbucks and all the new independent coffee shops. (that said, some have been put out of business BECAUSE Starbucks did eventually arrive with a bang).
In terms of this site on Trowbridge, it's telling that Bigby went for the QD property I'm sure entirely because it has drive-thru capacity, versus the corner property that is probably more comfortable and already set up for a food service business w/ kitchen (woks included??).
Will be interesting to see what happens at Trowbridge over the next fews years! Definitely a transitional area.
The Park Place development is now looking to set the height of their Park Place East building (the one on Abbot Rd) to 14 stores (140 feet). The Planning Commission voted against endorsing a proposed ordinance for this and the DDA voted for the proposed ordinance. The DDA also entered in to a contract to sell the properties on the condition that all approvals are met, etc.
The city expects to receive the formal site plan on Monday, December 17th.
I hope they will find at least one new name for these two developments, Park Place and The Park District are too similar and hard to keep straight which development is being discussed. I would think that shadow canyons[you can see the shadow effect on E. Mich. Ave. where the new Avenue building cast a shadow over the north side of the street] these buildings will cause could be a problem for the neighbors, but this seems to be one of the better areas to build tall buildings. I know people here have been waiting years for these developments to begin and it is very cool that they are going to start very soon. [knock on wood!]
Comments
Tearing down all the blight and the massively underutilized, huge parking lots to the east, then getting a variance to build something tall, useful, and perfect for the site??? I say yes to that!!!
But seriously, you're probably right about the reuse of the existing building, as the fence only runs up to it, and not around it. There was an Asian market their until recently, but the Korean restaurant that shared the building right on the corner has been closed for some time.
We must be talking about different locations. You said the corner of Trowbridge and Harrison, right? It's a corner, there is nothing east of it on the same block, of course. To the west of this corner site is the old QD, and then occupied businesses (a two-story law office, a heavily patronized Taco Bell, and then a complex of occupied small offices). RIGHT behind this whole strip is the railroad tracks. These lots aren't deep enough - Ingham County property look-up shows only 112 feet deep; most single-family homes in Lansing and East Lansing site on deeper lots than this - for anything other than small, single-use businesses. You might be able to some two-story mixed use kind of stuff, but that would be about it.
Heck, the Taco Bell drive-thru barely works on its shallow lot because of the lack of depth, and the same with the Tim Hortons drive-thru across the street. There really shouldn't be any drive-thrus along here save for maybe Wendy's, which has enough depth (which allows it a significant setback) to handle the cues/stacking. Really, Trowbridge is basically an on/off-ramp; that area is never going to be walkable in any real way without disconnecting the area from the freeway. And the train tracks running almost up against street further make the area a mess as it relates to trying to develop it an urban way. There needs to be fewer curb-cuts along the street, not more.
There is really no "huge" anything between the tracks and Trowbridge west of Harrison, and east of Harrison is MSU lands. So I'm confused.
All that said, I've been generally supportive of what they've done on the north side of the street. I just wish they'd have not backed off from making it more intense development. But south of the boulevard? They'd probably just be better off with some open space and "place-making" art or something.
My bad... I did mean to the west! Very good points about the narrowness of this plot in regards to drive-throughs. I still think a high rise with well thought out first floor drive-throughs could work. I'm pretty sure I've seen considerably worse in denser urban areas, although I can't think of any specific examples at the moment.
Yeah, this is a tight space. I definitely would not like to see anymore fast food restaurants over here. (Taco Bell and Wendy's are the best anyways). There are too many real food options over here to waste space on fast food. I could see this space going either way......either as a green space with public art and maintain the view of the train station from Trowbridge, or as some sort of higher density development.
But let's face it, it's not going to be an open entry way for art. Where's the value in that? It's more valuable as parking. So, I guess I'm with Ratchet -- Why not build an 8-story housing project with commercial ground level. Market demand would fill it up immediately. True, Trowbridge will never be walkable. Who cares? The rest of the area is. A tower would get you great views of campus, south campus farms, downtown Lansing and you would be able to see the emerging skylines in EL and Frandor. With the new hospital opening not too far away, I would be all over this site as a developer.
My goal at Trowbridge would be to continue in the trend of larger urban buildings so that people arriving in town feel like they're entering a big REAL city, not some generic suburban exit.
Speak of the devil, was just looking through the Board of Zoning Appeals for East Lansing. Appears back in April the owner of the Quality Dairy site (947 Trowbridge) requested a variance - because the site is so small as I've mentioned - to reduce the number of "stacking" spots on site from 10 to 6 to accomodate a Biggby Coffee with a drive-thru. The variance was approved.
The discussion really highlighted the difficulty of the size of the parcels. One board member asked if there was enough room to add a second lane of traffic behind the property, but that wouldn't be possible because of parking setback requirements, which would require an additional variance. Basically, any kind of drive-thru business for any of these lots on this side of the street requires a variance.
I guess looking at aerials more closely you might be able to just squeeze something between the tracks and Trowbridge on that side of the street the same width as Trowbridge Village across the street, though I'm not 100% sure. Parking - if the developer felt needed to make the project profitable - would have to be on the ground floor, though, or underground. Fortunately, there is transit not that far away along Harrison. So, I guess it's possible to multi-family work on the south side of Trowbridge, too, though it'd certainly be a less pleasant environment than living on the north side of the road.
Long story short, the Quality Dairy building is being reconstructed and will house a Biggby on one side with a small drive-thru, and an unspecified business in the other half of the building. What's going into the small commercial building on the corner, I have no idea.
Yeah, I agree -- it would be TERRIFYING to be in an apt south of Trowbridge when the trains come through. I remember sleeping over at a friend's house in Spartan Village right by the tracks and when the freights passed in the night I woke up each time thinking it was a tornado or earthquake or something!!
I'm really happy to hear that Bigby is moving in to the old QD building (that will always remain the QD to me
) I commend Bigby on their choice of locations, throughout their entire existence, from small town main streets to city centers to idle strip malls in densely populated areas to up-and-coming neighborhoods. I live in Detroit and Bigby's has franchises here that came WAY ahead of Starbucks and all the new independent coffee shops. (that said, some have been put out of business BECAUSE Starbucks did eventually arrive with a bang).
In terms of this site on Trowbridge, it's telling that Bigby went for the QD property I'm sure entirely because it has drive-thru capacity, versus the corner property that is probably more comfortable and already set up for a food service business w/ kitchen (woks included??).
Will be interesting to see what happens at Trowbridge over the next fews years! Definitely a transitional area.
The Park Place development is now looking to set the height of their Park Place East building (the one on Abbot Rd) to 14 stores (140 feet). The Planning Commission voted against endorsing a proposed ordinance for this and the DDA voted for the proposed ordinance. The DDA also entered in to a contract to sell the properties on the condition that all approvals are met, etc.
The city expects to receive the formal site plan on Monday, December 17th.
https://eastlansinginfo.org/content/dda-unanimously-approves-contract-park-place-developers
I hope they will find at least one new name for these two developments, Park Place and The Park District are too similar and hard to keep straight which development is being discussed. I would think that shadow canyons[you can see the shadow effect on E. Mich. Ave. where the new Avenue building cast a shadow over the north side of the street] these buildings will cause could be a problem for the neighbors, but this seems to be one of the better areas to build tall buildings. I know people here have been waiting years for these developments to begin and it is very cool that they are going to start very soon. [knock on wood!]
That is a good one!