I guess we already talked this idea over, but I really think that if Cedar and Larch were two-way streets it would make all properties on both sides of both streets more attractive and accessible for developers and residents.
There are a lot of good reasons to put utility lines underground, trees, ice storms, ascetics. The gigantic line poles the BWL is putting up on the west side are a good example of ugly. As are the trees in the area that have had their utility cut. If we had millions of pot tax money to do it, I could see rebuilding our downtown street grid from below ground up, depressing utilities, modernizing water, and sewer lines, and repaving the streets with new permeable materials to allow rainwater to drain and not go into storm sewers and rivers. I have this idea that the BWL could put some sort of steam lines in the streets and sidewalks that would warm the surface, melting ice and snow. It would be so cool if all the streets and sidewalks downtown were free of ice and snow all winter long without even plowing. Then maybe then the plows might be free come to my street!
Yeah, I'm pretty miffed at BWL's approach to line maintenance. I think it has a lot to do with their penny-pinching nature and a general unwillingness to do anything different. I remember seeing somewhere that it costs about $1 million dollars per mile to bury power lines. This is probably a low estimate, but at that rate, all the exisiting lines along the major routes/city centers in Lansing and East Lansing (Saginaw, K-zoo, Grand River, Cedar/Larch, Stadium district, MLK, Mt. Hope, Frandor, Abbot, Burcham, Coolidge, Lake Lansing Rd., etc.) for 10s of millions of dollars... not an obscene amount of money IMO...
...which makes me wonder how much burying the lines would save in the long term over maintaining overhead wires that are exposed to the elements and weather and tree growth...
I'll have to look it up again, but I remember talking about this hear, once, and finding out that it's basically a wash when you factor in the cost of having to excacate to repair busted lines underground, particularly if you have to do the repair in the winter. So, it's not really a money saver, but an aesthetic improvement.
I still think it's something that should be formally explored, though. Ask the community if they'd be willing to pay the price for such aesthetic improvements. And, again, there might actually be long-term savings, though from what I remember they were minimal.
I've been in favor of burying utilities for awhile, it's something I've brought up from time to time here on the forum. I'm glad to see that other people agree that it's something worth looking into, I would really like to hear from the BWL what the costs would be and I'd agree that starting with the major corridors would be a good starting point.
Telephone poles and wires are eyesores in and of themselves, add in the tree trimming required to keep the wires clear and it adds up to a significant negative impact on the look and feel of an area. Burying utilities, along with things like planting trees in the right of way, going back to old-style street lamps and simply maintaining the streets will go a long ways towards making Lansing's neighborhoods more desirable.
Speaking of the devil, the Lansing City Council and the Board of Water and Light will be holding a joint committee of the whole meeting at the BWL REO Town Depot, tomorrow:
5 year Trimming Plan! That thought makes me a little sick. If they did a better job, and not just butcher the poor trees into these un-natural sad shapes, it would be nice. They say they "try" to cut conservatively but that is not what it looks like. Once those crews get going speed is the only thing they really consider, they are private contractors it's how many and how fast, not let's do a proper trim. There is a process called "pollarding" that keeps trees in certain manageable shapes and sizes. Many cities do this. It does require more frequent attention but the trees can have a nice more attractive full shape with smaller leafy branches that cause less trouble for lines.
If this is a meeting you can't make, I'd definitely email them with that idea and see what kind of response you get. Most utilities have a tree trimming plan. We're mostly only hearing about it because up until the ice storm, no one in the public seemed interested in it, so the BWL is being a bit more proactive in keeping people abreast of their tree trimming plan, which is a good thing. Residents were crying about why they hadn't kept up the trees...and well they got their wish and then some, it seems. It's why it's important for them to get input. If no one is really complaining, they have no reason to think what they are doing is undesirable.
The Development and Planning Committee agenda for next month is relatively tame. They'll be voting on sending the rezoning of the 600 East Michigan and vacation of the alley to the full council. So this seems to be moving pretty quickly.
The biggest thing seems to be the approval of a grant from the Michigan DNR to finally help in purchasing the Lansing Boat Club property (Lansing's marina) directly west of Grand River Park on Main Street. I guess it's technically in Delta Township. For the time being from what little information that can be gleaned from the document it looks like it'll stay parkland, and the DNR specifies that any changes to this use would have to go through them.
Finally, on a little item that has to do with the building of a cellphone tower in Crego Park, there is a interesting historical document detailing all of Lansing's parks as of 1979, I believe. The most interesting thing I found is that in the City of Lansing, five of the parks we all know: 119 Armory, Fairview, Ferris and Comstock parks, and Groesbeck Golf Course are actually leased, though they don't specify who the city is leasing the land from. And, it may very well be that the city has purchase some or all of these parks since then.
It also gives the dates of when all parks that Lansing's actually owns were aquired. Of the undeveloped parks are a few names I didn't notice. While we all know Crego, Fine and Willoughby, there is a 263-acre Priggooris Park aquired in 1959, and 5-acre Holly Park acquired in 1978. Anyone know where these parks are? Given the size of Priggooris I'm guessing maybe it's part of all that parkland on the east and southeast side somewhere? Or maybe it's something that has been redeveloped or renamed? It's an unusual name.
I've never heard of Priggooris Park and Holly park either. In Googling, it appears Priggooris Park is north of Park Lake in Bath.
Holly Park appears to be a neighborhood in Lansing, northeast of Holmes and Pleasant Grove Rds.
Looks like the city is now asking for proposals that include building a NEW building for city hall, not just for renovating an existing building. Each developer is proposing a different downtown location:
_"Boji Group proposed putting a new City Hall at the northeast corner of South Grand Avenue and Lenawee Street. Boji said Thursday that the group plans to propose building at the same site. Under their proposal, he said, the new city hall would be adjacent to either apartments or a hotel.
Karp and Associates proposed putting a new City Hall and police station at at the corner of St. Joseph Street and Washington Avenue.
Urban Systems suggested using the former Lake Trust building on the southeast corner of Capitol Avenue and Lenawee Street. The credit union recently finalized the sale of the building to the development group. "_
At this point, I can't say I have a favorite spot - I'm just glad to see that in any case, there will be some infill over downtown surface lots and some much needed development on the south end of downtown Lansing.
Comments
I guess we already talked this idea over, but I really think that if Cedar and Larch were two-way streets it would make all properties on both sides of both streets more attractive and accessible for developers and residents.
There are a lot of good reasons to put utility lines underground, trees, ice storms, ascetics. The gigantic line poles the BWL is putting up on the west side are a good example of ugly. As are the trees in the area that have had their utility cut. If we had millions of pot tax money to do it, I could see rebuilding our downtown street grid from below ground up, depressing utilities, modernizing water, and sewer lines, and repaving the streets with new permeable materials to allow rainwater to drain and not go into storm sewers and rivers. I have this idea that the BWL could put some sort of steam lines in the streets and sidewalks that would warm the surface, melting ice and snow. It would be so cool if all the streets and sidewalks downtown were free of ice and snow all winter long without even plowing. Then maybe then the plows might be free come to my street!
Yeah, I'm pretty miffed at BWL's approach to line maintenance. I think it has a lot to do with their penny-pinching nature and a general unwillingness to do anything different. I remember seeing somewhere that it costs about $1 million dollars per mile to bury power lines. This is probably a low estimate, but at that rate, all the exisiting lines along the major routes/city centers in Lansing and East Lansing (Saginaw, K-zoo, Grand River, Cedar/Larch, Stadium district, MLK, Mt. Hope, Frandor, Abbot, Burcham, Coolidge, Lake Lansing Rd., etc.) for 10s of millions of dollars... not an obscene amount of money IMO...
...which makes me wonder how much burying the lines would save in the long term over maintaining overhead wires that are exposed to the elements and weather and tree growth...
I'll have to look it up again, but I remember talking about this hear, once, and finding out that it's basically a wash when you factor in the cost of having to excacate to repair busted lines underground, particularly if you have to do the repair in the winter. So, it's not really a money saver, but an aesthetic improvement.
I still think it's something that should be formally explored, though. Ask the community if they'd be willing to pay the price for such aesthetic improvements. And, again, there might actually be long-term savings, though from what I remember they were minimal.
I've been in favor of burying utilities for awhile, it's something I've brought up from time to time here on the forum. I'm glad to see that other people agree that it's something worth looking into, I would really like to hear from the BWL what the costs would be and I'd agree that starting with the major corridors would be a good starting point.
Telephone poles and wires are eyesores in and of themselves, add in the tree trimming required to keep the wires clear and it adds up to a significant negative impact on the look and feel of an area. Burying utilities, along with things like planting trees in the right of way, going back to old-style street lamps and simply maintaining the streets will go a long ways towards making Lansing's neighborhoods more desirable.
Speaking of the devil, the Lansing City Council and the Board of Water and Light will be holding a joint committee of the whole meeting at the BWL REO Town Depot, tomorrow:
https://lansingmi.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Agenda/_02152018-1999
Two of the discussion items on the agenda? Eastside tree trimming and a progress update on the 5-year tree trimming plan, overall.
5 year Trimming Plan! That thought makes me a little sick. If they did a better job, and not just butcher the poor trees into these un-natural sad shapes, it would be nice. They say they "try" to cut conservatively but that is not what it looks like. Once those crews get going speed is the only thing they really consider, they are private contractors it's how many and how fast, not let's do a proper trim. There is a process called "pollarding" that keeps trees in certain manageable shapes and sizes. Many cities do this. It does require more frequent attention but the trees can have a nice more attractive full shape with smaller leafy branches that cause less trouble for lines.
If this is a meeting you can't make, I'd definitely email them with that idea and see what kind of response you get. Most utilities have a tree trimming plan. We're mostly only hearing about it because up until the ice storm, no one in the public seemed interested in it, so the BWL is being a bit more proactive in keeping people abreast of their tree trimming plan, which is a good thing. Residents were crying about why they hadn't kept up the trees...and well they got their wish and then some, it seems. It's why it's important for them to get input. If no one is really complaining, they have no reason to think what they are doing is undesirable.
The Development and Planning Committee agenda for next month is relatively tame. They'll be voting on sending the rezoning of the 600 East Michigan and vacation of the alley to the full council. So this seems to be moving pretty quickly.
The biggest thing seems to be the approval of a grant from the Michigan DNR to finally help in purchasing the Lansing Boat Club property (Lansing's marina) directly west of Grand River Park on Main Street. I guess it's technically in Delta Township. For the time being from what little information that can be gleaned from the document it looks like it'll stay parkland, and the DNR specifies that any changes to this use would have to go through them.
Finally, on a little item that has to do with the building of a cellphone tower in Crego Park, there is a interesting historical document detailing all of Lansing's parks as of 1979, I believe. The most interesting thing I found is that in the City of Lansing, five of the parks we all know: 119 Armory, Fairview, Ferris and Comstock parks, and Groesbeck Golf Course are actually leased, though they don't specify who the city is leasing the land from. And, it may very well be that the city has purchase some or all of these parks since then.
It also gives the dates of when all parks that Lansing's actually owns were aquired. Of the undeveloped parks are a few names I didn't notice. While we all know Crego, Fine and Willoughby, there is a 263-acre Priggooris Park aquired in 1959, and 5-acre Holly Park acquired in 1978. Anyone know where these parks are? Given the size of Priggooris I'm guessing maybe it's part of all that parkland on the east and southeast side somewhere? Or maybe it's something that has been redeveloped or renamed? It's an unusual name.
I've never heard of Priggooris Park and Holly park either. In Googling, it appears Priggooris Park is north of Park Lake in Bath.
Holly Park appears to be a neighborhood in Lansing, northeast of Holmes and Pleasant Grove Rds.
I thought there was a dedicated thread for Lansing City Hall info, but I couldn't find it...
Anyhow, there are some interesting updates in this article from the LSJ:
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2018/02/15/re-submittal-opportunity-announced-new-city-hall-location/340459002/
Looks like the city is now asking for proposals that include building a NEW building for city hall, not just for renovating an existing building. Each developer is proposing a different downtown location:
_"Boji Group proposed putting a new City Hall at the northeast corner of South Grand Avenue and Lenawee Street. Boji said Thursday that the group plans to propose building at the same site. Under their proposal, he said, the new city hall would be adjacent to either apartments or a hotel.
Karp and Associates proposed putting a new City Hall and police station at at the corner of St. Joseph Street and Washington Avenue.
Urban Systems suggested using the former Lake Trust building on the southeast corner of Capitol Avenue and Lenawee Street. The credit union recently finalized the sale of the building to the development group. "_
At this point, I can't say I have a favorite spot - I'm just glad to see that in any case, there will be some infill over downtown surface lots and some much needed development on the south end of downtown Lansing.