I like the idea for turning the current City Market building into a wintergarden, especially if it could be expanded a little. It's worth noting that a group at MSU has been trying for years to build a domed winter garden near Abram's Planetarium: Student Greenhouse Project. I''d always hoped to see it actually get built but it looks like they're still a long ways from funding it.
As for City Market, I have my own vision of what I think it should be so bear with me as I disagree a little. To start with I just don't think the Clara's site is really large enough for what City Market should be. There's also no reason to place City Market right in one of the fastest up-and-coming areas of the city, City Market is a draw itself and could be used to anchor an area that needs a boost. My two favorite locations are unlikely to be available to the city, especially at a reasonable cost; The old Atlas Forge/Atmosphere Annealing building on Mt Hope & the RR tracks and the Demmer site on Oakland/Ballard would make excellent sites for an expanded City Market with room around them for complementary businesses and new developments.
That being said, I've recently thought that the BWL facility at Pennsylvania and Hazel might be the most realistic path to a far better and bigger market. The site has plenty of space for a market vastly expanded in scope, which I think is key to its success. (I think I've given this spiel before...) I think there should be space for long-term, seasonal, short-term and even daily vendors; this should include a good amount of outdoor/greenhouse space for the plant/flower vendors that seem to be an attraction for public markets. There should also be a market run "general store" of sorts which would provide basics (e.g. milk, pop, toiletries...) to ensure people could depend on the market as a shopping destination. The addition of a flea market/swap meet would be a great way to boost traffic, it could even be in it's own building at BWL's site. I've seen Eastern Market featured on a program where they talk about its wholesale market that links up farmers, stores, restaurants and wholesalers; I think that would be a great thing to try to replicate at Lansing's market. Lastly, a new market would ideally have room for events, such as things on the scale of the festivals held in Old Town and REO Town.
The BWL site should have room for all those things plus more while having plenty of room for parking. It's not in the most desirable location but it's in the core of the city, on the river with access to the River Trail and has good freeway access. The bigger key might be that it's publicly owned, if BWL doesn't give the land to the city it would certainly sell it cheap and the buildings wouldn't need a ton of modifications to function as a market. This seems like a very realistic way to get much bigger and better market for not a lot of money.
I like both ideas; there are definitely many good potential locations for various reasons. I think in particular the BWL, which will soon be empty, is a nice option simply because of the additional space, parking and river trail access. The only dilemma is how much of it is in the floodplain? Parking and out door vendor space could easily be located in those areas assuming the building itself isn't. I especially like the idea of maintaining a location along the river; I loved being able to ride my bike along the river trail and stop at the market to pick a few things up. While I like the idea of it at the old Clara's site it is definitely not hospitable to non vehicles.
@hood the Atlas Forge building- is that the one on Mt. Hope and Washington? If so, that's the site that I think is ideal for a city market. I'll copy and paste my comments from elsewhere:
There's a large warehouse facility that I think is owned by QD on the corner of Washington and Mt. Hope. I think this is a great place for a new market, with the potential to become Lansing's answer to Detroit's Eastern Market. This location sits at the southern entrance of REO town, so it's relatively easy to capture tourist travelers from the north and it links REO to the residential neighborhoods of the south side.
It's the perfect balance of providing fresh and artisan food to neighboring areas, and having a tourist area to draw those from surrounding areas. Tons of indoor space, a nice industrial feel that fits the city, ample parking in the area, and close to an emerging district. It seems so perfect to me and would be very similar to Eastern Market.
No city council meetings next week, but some the Committee on Development & Planning and the Planning Board are meeting next week. Some notable things:
The committee will be introducing and setting a public hearing for the rezoning of 1141 North Pine from D-1 Professional to DM-1 Residential. This is the one for converting the old superintendents house on the School for the Blind property into a 14-bed substance abuse center. They will also be setting a public hearing for the special land use permit for this site, since these types of facilities are only allowed by special land use in DM-1 Residential (and not at all in D-1 Professional, thus the request for rezoning). Despite a weird amount of opposition to this one, particularly from folks who largely don't even live in the neighborhood, the Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of the rezoning and special land use permit at their July 10 meeting.
The committee will be setting a public hearing for Waypoint Dunckel (3600 Dunckel) brownfield plan. This one is going pretty quickly; the brownfield authority approved the plan back on July 13.
Speaking of Waypoint Dunckel, this one has to go through an additional step with the Planning Board next Tuesday I believe because they are seeking to develop this under the "Planned Residential Development" (PRD) overlay of the zoning code and because apparently this is a special land use in an E-1 Apartment Shop district. The PRD allows developers more flexibility on developing residential units are large parcels (allows various density bonuses, allows a mix of housing on a site - though only at the same density requirements of that district unless they request said density bonuses - in a district that might only otherwise allow one kind of housing, etc.). Waypoint is, in fact, not seeking density bonuses with this project. We also find out in the Planning Board items that Waypoint requested a lot split in early May because they seek to develop the northern side of the property (4.2 acres) with a hotel, so I guess the commercial with this will be developed seperately along Collins.
We find in the minutes from the July 10 Planning Board meetings that prior to Mayor Schor cancelling the proposed city vote on the sell of the City Market site that the Planning Board did, indeed, vote to recommend putting this on the ballot in a 5-1 vote. So this was well on its way to the ballot.
Lastly, from next Tuesday's Planning Board meeting we finally get the first official piece of McLaren's for their new hospital in the University Corporate Research Park. McLaren is requesting the vacation of all of Alliance Drive and parts of Technology Boulevard to allow for the proper planning of their new hospital.
@sabatoa The Atlas Forge building (now Premier Thermal Solutions aka PTS) is the building within that complex but just west of the train tracks. I had imagined the two floor buildings in that complex as a mix of commercial and apartments. I have a 3d model of my idea for the whole complex, including the Atlas Forge-turned-City Market. The biggest thing stopping this from happening is that QD and PTS own their buildings and actively use them, buying the RR tracks may not be feasible either.
Wow so cool, I really like that concept and putting that large area into public use would be great. When I grew up nearby you could always hear the drop forge pounding all night they would also open the doors in the summer and you could see the sparks flying. There was a discount department store in the building on the corner so there has been retail in that building. If they built this complex then add the French building there would be lots of people in the neighborhood to shop there. Right now at Cedar and Mt. Hope there seems to be something going in the sevice station building next to Sir Pizza. The building has been painted and cleared out and the parking lot has been repaved.
Of course, the notes about a new market are interesting and thoughtful, and great ideas, I was thinking it would be nice to be able to visit the depot building more often as a market rather than just once in a while as a restaurant.
@Lymon89 virtually the whole site is in a 100 year floodplain according to the maps. While certainly not ideal, I don't see why being in a 100 year floodplain would be much of a problem for a city market building though, there's relatively little of value that couldn't be easily and quickly removed. I don't think any of the BWL site flooded in the most recent floods so I think it really will take a full-on 100 year flood or close to it to be affected.
Wow, i see I missed some great ideas over the past few weeks! My vote is for Clara's; hood makes some good arguments for a different spot, but its hard to beat the feel of the old train station... which would be perfect for a farm-to-table restaurant! Plus, I think there is lots of surface parking around Clara's, as well as space in front for a seasonal outdoor market, and space in back to bump out some permanent vendor space.
The city announced on its website on the 3rd they'd be removing the old copper beech tree on the grounds of the Turner-Dodge House. Apparently, branches of this massive, old treet fell on the seating area beneath:
This tree is the tree just northeast of the house, and fortunately isn't one of the trees that line the front walkway from North Street, so the aesthetic detriments will be minimal from the front of the property at least. I'll write them to see if they plan to replace the tree with another.
Speaking of Turner Dodge, the county parks millage is finally coming into play. They will be rebuilding the section that stretches behind the mansion on the property.
Comments
Oh, Thank you! It would be so nice to have a year-round green space that would be illuminated at night in the winter, lighting up the grey nights.
I like the idea for turning the current City Market building into a wintergarden, especially if it could be expanded a little. It's worth noting that a group at MSU has been trying for years to build a domed winter garden near Abram's Planetarium: Student Greenhouse Project. I''d always hoped to see it actually get built but it looks like they're still a long ways from funding it.
As for City Market, I have my own vision of what I think it should be so bear with me as I disagree a little. To start with I just don't think the Clara's site is really large enough for what City Market should be. There's also no reason to place City Market right in one of the fastest up-and-coming areas of the city, City Market is a draw itself and could be used to anchor an area that needs a boost. My two favorite locations are unlikely to be available to the city, especially at a reasonable cost; The old Atlas Forge/Atmosphere Annealing building on Mt Hope & the RR tracks and the Demmer site on Oakland/Ballard would make excellent sites for an expanded City Market with room around them for complementary businesses and new developments.
That being said, I've recently thought that the BWL facility at Pennsylvania and Hazel might be the most realistic path to a far better and bigger market. The site has plenty of space for a market vastly expanded in scope, which I think is key to its success. (I think I've given this spiel before...) I think there should be space for long-term, seasonal, short-term and even daily vendors; this should include a good amount of outdoor/greenhouse space for the plant/flower vendors that seem to be an attraction for public markets. There should also be a market run "general store" of sorts which would provide basics (e.g. milk, pop, toiletries...) to ensure people could depend on the market as a shopping destination. The addition of a flea market/swap meet would be a great way to boost traffic, it could even be in it's own building at BWL's site. I've seen Eastern Market featured on a program where they talk about its wholesale market that links up farmers, stores, restaurants and wholesalers; I think that would be a great thing to try to replicate at Lansing's market. Lastly, a new market would ideally have room for events, such as things on the scale of the festivals held in Old Town and REO Town.
The BWL site should have room for all those things plus more while having plenty of room for parking. It's not in the most desirable location but it's in the core of the city, on the river with access to the River Trail and has good freeway access. The bigger key might be that it's publicly owned, if BWL doesn't give the land to the city it would certainly sell it cheap and the buildings wouldn't need a ton of modifications to function as a market. This seems like a very realistic way to get much bigger and better market for not a lot of money.
I like both ideas; there are definitely many good potential locations for various reasons. I think in particular the BWL, which will soon be empty, is a nice option simply because of the additional space, parking and river trail access. The only dilemma is how much of it is in the floodplain? Parking and out door vendor space could easily be located in those areas assuming the building itself isn't. I especially like the idea of maintaining a location along the river; I loved being able to ride my bike along the river trail and stop at the market to pick a few things up. While I like the idea of it at the old Clara's site it is definitely not hospitable to non vehicles.
@hood the Atlas Forge building- is that the one on Mt. Hope and Washington? If so, that's the site that I think is ideal for a city market. I'll copy and paste my comments from elsewhere:
There's a large warehouse facility that I think is owned by QD on the corner of Washington and Mt. Hope. I think this is a great place for a new market, with the potential to become Lansing's answer to Detroit's Eastern Market. This location sits at the southern entrance of REO town, so it's relatively easy to capture tourist travelers from the north and it links REO to the residential neighborhoods of the south side.
Streetview of the spot
It's the perfect balance of providing fresh and artisan food to neighboring areas, and having a tourist area to draw those from surrounding areas. Tons of indoor space, a nice industrial feel that fits the city, ample parking in the area, and close to an emerging district. It seems so perfect to me and would be very similar to Eastern Market.
No city council meetings next week, but some the Committee on Development & Planning and the Planning Board are meeting next week. Some notable things:
The committee will be introducing and setting a public hearing for the rezoning of 1141 North Pine from D-1 Professional to DM-1 Residential. This is the one for converting the old superintendents house on the School for the Blind property into a 14-bed substance abuse center. They will also be setting a public hearing for the special land use permit for this site, since these types of facilities are only allowed by special land use in DM-1 Residential (and not at all in D-1 Professional, thus the request for rezoning). Despite a weird amount of opposition to this one, particularly from folks who largely don't even live in the neighborhood, the Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of the rezoning and special land use permit at their July 10 meeting.
The committee will be setting a public hearing for Waypoint Dunckel (3600 Dunckel) brownfield plan. This one is going pretty quickly; the brownfield authority approved the plan back on July 13.
Speaking of Waypoint Dunckel, this one has to go through an additional step with the Planning Board next Tuesday I believe because they are seeking to develop this under the "Planned Residential Development" (PRD) overlay of the zoning code and because apparently this is a special land use in an E-1 Apartment Shop district. The PRD allows developers more flexibility on developing residential units are large parcels (allows various density bonuses, allows a mix of housing on a site - though only at the same density requirements of that district unless they request said density bonuses - in a district that might only otherwise allow one kind of housing, etc.). Waypoint is, in fact, not seeking density bonuses with this project. We also find out in the Planning Board items that Waypoint requested a lot split in early May because they seek to develop the northern side of the property (4.2 acres) with a hotel, so I guess the commercial with this will be developed seperately along Collins.
We find in the minutes from the July 10 Planning Board meetings that prior to Mayor Schor cancelling the proposed city vote on the sell of the City Market site that the Planning Board did, indeed, vote to recommend putting this on the ballot in a 5-1 vote. So this was well on its way to the ballot.
Lastly, from next Tuesday's Planning Board meeting we finally get the first official piece of McLaren's for their new hospital in the University Corporate Research Park. McLaren is requesting the vacation of all of Alliance Drive and parts of Technology Boulevard to allow for the proper planning of their new hospital.
@sabatoa The Atlas Forge building (now Premier Thermal Solutions aka PTS) is the building within that complex but just west of the train tracks. I had imagined the two floor buildings in that complex as a mix of commercial and apartments. I have a 3d model of my idea for the whole complex, including the Atlas Forge-turned-City Market. The biggest thing stopping this from happening is that QD and PTS own their buildings and actively use them, buying the RR tracks may not be feasible either.
A couple views of my model:
Wow so cool, I really like that concept and putting that large area into public use would be great. When I grew up nearby you could always hear the drop forge pounding all night they would also open the doors in the summer and you could see the sparks flying. There was a discount department store in the building on the corner so there has been retail in that building. If they built this complex then add the French building there would be lots of people in the neighborhood to shop there. Right now at Cedar and Mt. Hope there seems to be something going in the sevice station building next to Sir Pizza. The building has been painted and cleared out and the parking lot has been repaved.
Of course, the notes about a new market are interesting and thoughtful, and great ideas, I was thinking it would be nice to be able to visit the depot building more often as a market rather than just once in a while as a restaurant.
@Lymon89 virtually the whole site is in a 100 year floodplain according to the maps. While certainly not ideal, I don't see why being in a 100 year floodplain would be much of a problem for a city market building though, there's relatively little of value that couldn't be easily and quickly removed. I don't think any of the BWL site flooded in the most recent floods so I think it really will take a full-on 100 year flood or close to it to be affected.
Wow, i see I missed some great ideas over the past few weeks! My vote is for Clara's; hood makes some good arguments for a different spot, but its hard to beat the feel of the old train station... which would be perfect for a farm-to-table restaurant! Plus, I think there is lots of surface parking around Clara's, as well as space in front for a seasonal outdoor market, and space in back to bump out some permanent vendor space.
Love the winter garden idea too!
The city announced on its website on the 3rd they'd be removing the old copper beech tree on the grounds of the Turner-Dodge House. Apparently, branches of this massive, old treet fell on the seating area beneath:
This tree is the tree just northeast of the house, and fortunately isn't one of the trees that line the front walkway from North Street, so the aesthetic detriments will be minimal from the front of the property at least. I'll write them to see if they plan to replace the tree with another.
Speaking of Turner Dodge, the county parks millage is finally coming into play. They will be rebuilding the section that stretches behind the mansion on the property.