CSO Projects

edited February 2008 in Lansing
Since the CSO is major ongoing project, I figured it deserves it's own forum.

Current CSO Newsletter

In the newsletter available now they show some renderings of a streetscaped Grand Ave, which really looks nice.




  • Man that's going to look weird when it's done. In a good way.
  • It's really nice to see some renderings of Grand Ave. I hope that Accident Funds sign is as big as the rendering and neon on both sides to replace the void left when the BWL signs went down.
  • Yeah, I'd hope the City would push AF to put up the signage soon -- generate some excitement and spiff the place up a bit.
  • Yes, weird in the very best way. I'm not old enough to remember Grand without the parking garage annex over the street, but it will certainly help.
  • Lots of talk lately about the CSO project and implications for a road diet on Saginaw and Oakland when it gets to there in 2010. The Northwest Initiatve's Westside Alliance has put together a promo piece that was delivered to most of the surrounding homes and businesses on Lansing's west side: http://nwlansing.org/pdf/wsa/Saginaw_Oakland_Advocacy_3_24_08.pdf

    I've seen old photographs of Oakland before the additional lanes and before it curved off to connect back to Saginaw near Big Tony's Pizza. The homes looked really nice, with sizable front yards...Now who wants to live in a house right on a four-lane one-way street (with no parking)? Last weekend I walked down Saginaw to Sawyer's Pancake house -- what a frightening experience! I've heard people talk about the crime in the area near Pine/Saginaw, but I was definitely more afraid of getting hit with a speeding car (35 must be the minimum speed limit) or road debris flying up and hitting me.

    I know Portland's had great success with road diets. What do people think - will Lansing take the chance when the CSO project comes to those streets and reduce the lanes?
  • This has been tossed around for a few years now, and I'd absolutely love to see it happen, but it sounds like from how it's being reported on in the local media it will be trashed, again. I know that our city planning director is behind the idea, but MDOT doesn't seem to be onboard, at all, and that's unfortunate. The problem has been that it's a state trunkline and managed by MDOT meaning the city can't reconstruct it without their blessing. It's going to take a serious push and initiative to sell the idea to MDOT, and I wish NW Lansing all the best, but I have my doubts that they will be able to break through. They haven't been able to before.
  • edited April 2008
    How different state Departments of Transportation can be: MDOT appears to not want anything to do with revitalizing areas yet Oregon nine years ago publishes a booklet on doing just that called "Main Street...When a Highway Runs Through It" (http://www.contextsensitivesolutions.org/content/reading/main-street/).

    Perhaps now that there aren't three GM factories down the street that people have to rush to and from to punch a clock at shift changes, MDOT will consider it.

    I recognize that Saginaw/Oakland is a state trunkline and gets its fair share of traffic, but it's got at least double the lane counts of I-496, which I'm sure gets more traffic.
  • Saginaw/Oakland has been obsolete for years, now. I don't think the traffic patterns have justified the amount of lanes Saginaw has had for decades, now. It doesn't just not make sense from an urban planning perspective, but from a traffic perspective, I'd think. You'd think that be enough for them to at least seriously consider the plan. From what I heard on the news MDOT effectively shot down the idea before it was even formally brought up again by saying something to the extent of "it'll need a lot more studying before it would be feasible." People have been studying this for years. lol Perhaps, we need to launch an email campaign to our local MDOT official (who I still have to find out who it is). It's going to take other ways outside of the conventional route to even get this on the radar.
  • They could probably convert both Oakland and Saginaw to 3/4/5 lane 2-way roads. Maybe make Saginaw a 5 lane 2-way, since it's closer to both downtown and Frandor business districts, and convert Oakland into a 3/4 lane 2-way road to serve the surrounding neighborhoods. Oakland especially is almost always empty.
  • Isn't Saginaw already 5 lanes? Simply changing it to two way is not enough, IMO.

    That said, the plan I do remember seeing in the City Pulse some years back did have the street remaining the same size but simply converting it two two ways using the further left and right lanes for one-street parking to slow down traffic even further. This also totally took out most of Oakland through much of the westside turning it into a linear green-space. That sounded a bit extreme, but there are so many possibilities, ANY of which would be better than what we have, now. Growing up in the very area where all four of these one-way streets met, I can tell you it's absolutely terrible what it does to the neighborhood.
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