CSO Projects

hoodhood
edited February 2008 in Lansing
Since the CSO is major ongoing project, I figured it deserves it's own forum.

Current CSO Newsletter

In the newsletter available now they show some renderings of a streetscaped Grand Ave, which really looks nice.

GrandAve2.jpg

GrandAve1.jpg
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Comments

  • mindbendermindbender
    Man that's going to look weird when it's done. In a good way.
  • JaredJared
    It's really nice to see some renderings of Grand Ave. I hope that Accident Funds sign is as big as the rendering and neon on both sides to replace the void left when the BWL signs went down.
  • reversiblehattreversiblehatt
    Yeah, I'd hope the City would push AF to put up the signage soon -- generate some excitement and spiff the place up a bit.
  • schurymischurymi
    Lots of talk lately about the CSO project and implications for a road diet on Saginaw and Oakland when it gets to there in 2010. The Northwest Initiatve's Westside Alliance has put together a promo piece that was delivered to most of the surrounding homes and businesses on Lansing's west side: http://nwlansing.org/pdf/wsa/Saginaw_Oakland_Advocacy_3_24_08.pdf

    I've seen old photographs of Oakland before the additional lanes and before it curved off to connect back to Saginaw near Big Tony's Pizza. The homes looked really nice, with sizable front yards...Now who wants to live in a house right on a four-lane one-way street (with no parking)? Last weekend I walked down Saginaw to Sawyer's Pancake house -- what a frightening experience! I've heard people talk about the crime in the area near Pine/Saginaw, but I was definitely more afraid of getting hit with a speeding car (35 must be the minimum speed limit) or road debris flying up and hitting me.

    I know Portland's had great success with road diets. What do people think - will Lansing take the chance when the CSO project comes to those streets and reduce the lanes?
  • schurymischurymi
    edited April 2008
    How different state Departments of Transportation can be: MDOT appears to not want anything to do with revitalizing areas yet Oregon nine years ago publishes a booklet on doing just that called "Main Street...When a Highway Runs Through It" (http://www.contextsensitivesolutions.org/content/reading/main-street/).

    Perhaps now that there aren't three GM factories down the street that people have to rush to and from to punch a clock at shift changes, MDOT will consider it.

    I recognize that Saginaw/Oakland is a state trunkline and gets its fair share of traffic, but it's got at least double the lane counts of I-496, which I'm sure gets more traffic.
  • mindbendermindbender
    They could probably convert both Oakland and Saginaw to 3/4/5 lane 2-way roads. Maybe make Saginaw a 5 lane 2-way, since it's closer to both downtown and Frandor business districts, and convert Oakland into a 3/4 lane 2-way road to serve the surrounding neighborhoods. Oakland especially is almost always empty.
  • mindbendermindbender
    You're right about the size of Saginaw, it is 5 lanes. I guess I was assuming they'd still need a full 5 lanes to handle the traffic, but maybe they wouldn't.
  • hoodhood
    Saginaw/Oakland where they are one way are two of the busiest streets in the Lansing Area. At rush hour, or virtually any time during the day, during the week they are clogged with cars. There is no reasonable way to change them back into two ways without doing a major project, like a 6 lane boulevard similar to MLK. I wish they could be turned back into two ways, so downtown could more easily expand north, but I think the streets are just too busy.
  • hoodhood
    Yeah, but Saginaw/Oakland are the only major east/west throughfare in the Lansing area, all the other roads have been chopped up too much to compensate, like Michigan, St Joe, ect...

    Either way they would have make one a 5 lane and one a three lane, which isn't a whole lot better than being a one way.
  • schurymischurymi
    MDOT has its organizational chart online: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/orgchart011603_55427_7.pdf.

    Lansing is in the "University Region", headed by Mark Chaput (ChaputM@michigan.gov), who reports to Chief Operating Officer Larry Tibbits (TibbitsL@michigan.gov).

    As a resident of the Saginaw/Oakland area, I can say that during rush hour, traffic is heavy and generally traveling over the posted speed of 35 MPH. But, during non-rush hour, traffic can be very thin to non-existent and with a 4+ one-way street traffic moves in general in great excess of 35 MPH. I see it so often when cars get to the City of Lansing sign heading into the city near the underpass for the rail line, they hit the accelerator, despite the posted speed actually decreasing there!

    I'm going to admit to being somewhat ignorant on traffic studies, modeling schemes, etc. I am curious, however, how W. Saginaw Street in Lansing and Delta Twps. can be 2 lanes in each direction w/ a center turn lane and functional adequately whereas in the City the same street needs to be 4+ lanes in each direction? I have a hard time believing that the street collects enough traffic around the now-defunct GM factories to warrant the doubling of lanes...
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