Permeable pavement is so rare because the upkeep has got to be ridiculous. You basically have to replace failing parts by hand, and things with so many joints are even more susceptible to freeze-and-thaw cycles than pavement or concrete. I'd like to see more of them, too, but these are largely done on a small scale just given the costs of both installation and maintenance. I can literally think of only two cases in the city, currently, and that's an LCC lot at Saginaw and Capitol and the small parking lot of the Red Cedar Friends Meeting House (Quakers) in Old Town. With black top, all you have to do is mill and repave.
I'm psyched to see those rain gardens in Frandor. The railings and the ambient lighting that are detailed in the .pdf on the previous page could look really nice. The newly added and renovated storefronts also are big improvements. Frandor is getting some new life- and I have to believe that the addition of thousands of new residents and workers (Red Cedar and SkyVue) will only improve demand in Frandor and fuel more upgrades.
I have not seen the paved lots that you point out. The one example of this kind of road pavement that I know about has not had the problems that you point out. Granted it is in a small town but the road that has been repaved is the main street of town and sees a great deal of traffic. The benefits to the local environment were apparent right away when no beach along that stretch of the street had to be closed due to pollution from the storm drains the run directly into the town harbor. The areas that have regular pavement still had beach closing. I think that because all liquid water [not snow or ice] flows through the several feet of rock and sand below the surface into the ground, it is not on the surface to freeze and thaw and create pot holes. There have been no breaks or cracking of the pavement. I think that perhaps the extra expense would be rubber guards for snow plow blades and using the same kind of paving materials to fill breaks made by utility and construction work. This process has been carried out in a normal way and did not require being rebuilt by hand. It is also very black and seems to melt the snow and ice faster once it has been plowed. Check it out at Provincetownview.com click on "townhall" cam and you can see the street I am talking about. Not a big deal to me just a good idea.
If someone is interested in seeing this type of pavement, see the State-owned parking lot at Pine and Kalamazoo. They resurfaced it with permeable material a year or two ago.
I guess I'm confused. They have actually crushed material you can use as permeable pavement? All the lots I've ever seen use permeable, hand-laid bricks.
Yes, there is a material known as permeable concrete. I don't know more about the product in terms of it's durability, but it looks very similar to normal paving; not block pavers. LCC does have one surface lot that is permeable concrete, I can't tell you which one exactly though. I thought it was one of the newer lots off Saginaw. There is also a lot located in Grand Ledge with permeable concrete if I remember correctly.
LCC's permeable lot is north of Saginaw between Capitol and Seymour. I'm not sure how it fares here either, I haven't looked closely at the LCC lot. A development called the Lodges at Hannah uses strips of permeable concrete for drainage and parts of them have disintegrated into gravel. I can imagine that when water freezes while in the concrete in could break it up unless the concrete is quite flexible.
The folks out east all had the same thoughts,and questions when they decided to repave the street. It is a kind of asphalt that looks very much normal. People thought sand would fill up the draining spaces, that it would sink, that it would crumble in the winter. I was there for the big snows and blizzards, hurricanes, and Nor'easters [now you know why I moved] of the past few years and the street held up perfectly. That is why I was so impressed, and thought it could be used for environmentally sensitive areas like the Red Cedar drain area. In Mass. they have very strong regulations about what and how anything is built near fresh or ocean water. Once a new plan is made you have to stop anything from going into the water even if you had a drain for 200 years. The town could have diverted storm water into the small sewer system but that would have taken up capacity that was reserved for future growth, so they went with a system that would not add to water to the sewer, or pollute the harbor. I think that the planned water gardens will serve the same purpose.
It is fun to think about what would I do if it were my project, which is why I often have comments that may not exactly be about what is going on, rather what could be. I am hoping that folks think that is OK and part of this forum. I love Lansing my home town, and ever since I was a kid I been interested in developments here.
The county drain commissioner is set to sign with the DEQ for permits for the start of the actual drain project, and hopes to have an actual draft of the plan done by April. I guess the public part of the plan is what's been holding up the private development as the former must be completed before the latter goes forward. The drain commission has two months after this signing to get the three easements from the city they need, one for the actual park, one for stormwater runoff areas within the park, and one for Ranney Park. Bernero says in the article that so long as the three easements aren't so large that they make the private development plan non-viable, he could think of no reason to not hand over the land.
Anyway, of the course the title of the piece is a click-bait scaremonger. lol
LANSING - A project to reconfigure a drain that affects redevelopment projects and existing businesses in the city, Lansing Township and East Lansing could cost up to $30 million to build, Ingham County Drain Commissioner Pat Lindemann said.
Lindemann hopes to have a draft of the Montgomery Drain project with an estimated cost finalized by April so he can present plans at a public meeting. When pressed on a cost range, he replied "more than $10 million and less than $30 million." Specifics of paying for the project are not set, but contributions from businesses and developers and a special assessment appear likely.
Lindemann said he's under time constraints because a state Department of Environmental Quality permit for the project requires him to get three easements from the city within 60 days. He intends to sign the permit on Monday.
"I don’t know how to get people to move faster on this," Lindemann said. “It’s like sewing a fine piece of art. You have to make that needle fit through stuff.”
Do we have a map of the three easements in the permit plan? I can't remember, but I'd imagine so.
Comments
It is fun to think about what would I do if it were my project, which is why I often have comments that may not exactly be about what is going on, rather what could be. I am hoping that folks think that is OK and part of this forum. I love Lansing my home town, and ever since I was a kid I been interested in developments here.
Anyway, of the course the title of the piece is a click-bait scaremonger. lol
Do we have a map of the three easements in the permit plan? I can't remember, but I'd imagine so.