EL's "fine tuning" a great example of the perfect being an enemy of the good - just let 'em build SOMETHING. Even if someone does come along and offer the "perfect" development, the city changes over time, ten years don't the road it might not feel perfect any more. But at least it isn't a vacant building.
I do want to defend East Lansing a bit here. We really shouldn't take anything for East Lansing, and I don't mean that as a stretch either. The city is trying to tackle the problem of downtown becoming a ghost-town during the summer and they see adding more permanent residents as their strategy. Legally they can't age discriminate with the exception of senior housing, so that's what they're pushing for.
I spent multiple summers working in downtown East Lansing at Melting Moments and there were many empty days because even though the weather is good, many of the city's permanent residents didn't come downtown (and basically 0 lived downtown).
I know we go in circles on this, but my opinion of this is pretty simple: So long as developers are asking an arm and leg from the city, financially, for these projects, they open themselves up to micro-managing. Don't want the interference? Then take the time needed to raise the capital you'll need to build these projects thereby lowering the financial assistance you ask from the city.
Like, 15 years ago, I could buy the excuse that these development needed this massive tax grab-backs to make these projects financially viable. I use to be one of those urging cities to take whatever they could get; I didn't find a project I wouldn't support. At this point, these tax regime schemes have become simple corporate welfare dependency, plain and simple. They don't need the assistance because it makes or breaks the project, but rather because they know it's there and they are pretty sure the city'll give it to them. Well, cities have become smarter and are actually asking for more public benefit from these projects. I'm not even a little mad at that.
Anyway, this all seems kind of cart-before-horse, because as far as I can tell, the city is no longer delaying Park District and seem to be behind Center City. We're hearing about them recently because they are actually holding the public hearings and such on schedule unless I'm hearing wrong.
All good points. When I went to MSU the school year was divided into quarters. I worked at the Kellogg Center so I had to be enrolled every quarter and there were lots of students enrolled for summer quarter. I wonder, do they no longer offer classes in the summer? Why it is so empty in E.L. during the summers? Maybe because downtown E.L. is like a tourist town, all of the businesses are for tourist in this case the tourist are students. It is very understandable the they are trying to create a better mix of people who live here all year and just visitors. I think if these projects do get built they will be attractive to people other than students. I hope some kind of design standards are met and that the worthy interest of the city are upheld. It looks like they are trying at least to let this happen.
MSU continues to offer courses during the summer semester and there are a lot of summer outreach programs, like the sport camps. Many courses are offered online as a way, I think, of giving students the opportunity to leave E.L. and do internships and professional work. Some students stay over the summer but it does not compare to the general student population. Also, summer is a good time for faculty to undertake research and other academic work off campus. I would say that the academic freedom given to students and faculty during the summer, together with lack of non-University full-time, professional jobs in downtown E.L., are big factors for having an unpopulated downtown.
Also, I perceive that the activity in the hospitality sector remains decent during the summer because of outreach programs and other University activities.
Having spent some time there during the summer, I think that the festivals bring good pedestrian activity downtown and would suggest city council be creative in maintaining the festivals downtown. Even having them in MSU land near downtown or near the Broad Art Museum would be good options. I am sure the University would be open to that. The current setting is not ideal. Aestethically is not good. Even think that having them in the top level of the parking structure would be an upgrade.
More full-time jobs downtown and in the city are necessary to maintain a vibrant downtown year round. Nevertheless, if there is 1 thing the city should negotiate and be creative in light of proposed projects is keeping festivals downtown. Have them build a small venue, like the MSU Summer Circle Theatre Stage.
I think both downtown East Lansing and Lansing have similar problems, there are times that almost everyone leaves. The tourist season in the town I where I lived was lengthened by having many different kinds of festivals that would attract different groups. There could be events that happen every week like a night market that set up on the empty streets, with food drinks, arts and crafts, entertainment say every Friday or Saturday night in the summer. Local performer competitions could draw lots of people. Just a bit of creativity and promotion, combined with something fun and interesting would help fill these downtown's during the off "season".
Having never really been involved in "Greek life" I have to admit I'm surprised that fraternities/sororities have the capital to pull off building something like this. It just seems like something from days long past to me. But, I guess I don't really know what it's like to be part of one.
Well, just like anything in a capitalistic society, "Greek life" is pretty much a business. Most people that join this sorority are signing up for a 3-year apartment lease. Businesses own franchises for the sororities/fraternities and these are basically glorified co-ops. So in that sense, it's easy to see the funding for this. A new building will increase demand for the rooms in it as well as the increased occupancy will become increased revenues.
Comments
EL's "fine tuning" a great example of the perfect being an enemy of the good - just let 'em build SOMETHING. Even if someone does come along and offer the "perfect" development, the city changes over time, ten years don't the road it might not feel perfect any more. But at least it isn't a vacant building.
I do want to defend East Lansing a bit here. We really shouldn't take anything for East Lansing, and I don't mean that as a stretch either. The city is trying to tackle the problem of downtown becoming a ghost-town during the summer and they see adding more permanent residents as their strategy. Legally they can't age discriminate with the exception of senior housing, so that's what they're pushing for.
I spent multiple summers working in downtown East Lansing at Melting Moments and there were many empty days because even though the weather is good, many of the city's permanent residents didn't come downtown (and basically 0 lived downtown).
I know we go in circles on this, but my opinion of this is pretty simple: So long as developers are asking an arm and leg from the city, financially, for these projects, they open themselves up to micro-managing. Don't want the interference? Then take the time needed to raise the capital you'll need to build these projects thereby lowering the financial assistance you ask from the city.
Like, 15 years ago, I could buy the excuse that these development needed this massive tax grab-backs to make these projects financially viable. I use to be one of those urging cities to take whatever they could get; I didn't find a project I wouldn't support. At this point, these tax regime schemes have become simple corporate welfare dependency, plain and simple. They don't need the assistance because it makes or breaks the project, but rather because they know it's there and they are pretty sure the city'll give it to them. Well, cities have become smarter and are actually asking for more public benefit from these projects. I'm not even a little mad at that.
Anyway, this all seems kind of cart-before-horse, because as far as I can tell, the city is no longer delaying Park District and seem to be behind Center City. We're hearing about them recently because they are actually holding the public hearings and such on schedule unless I'm hearing wrong.
All good points. When I went to MSU the school year was divided into quarters. I worked at the Kellogg Center so I had to be enrolled every quarter and there were lots of students enrolled for summer quarter. I wonder, do they no longer offer classes in the summer? Why it is so empty in E.L. during the summers? Maybe because downtown E.L. is like a tourist town, all of the businesses are for tourist in this case the tourist are students. It is very understandable the they are trying to create a better mix of people who live here all year and just visitors. I think if these projects do get built they will be attractive to people other than students. I hope some kind of design standards are met and that the worthy interest of the city are upheld. It looks like they are trying at least to let this happen.
MSU continues to offer courses during the summer semester and there are a lot of summer outreach programs, like the sport camps. Many courses are offered online as a way, I think, of giving students the opportunity to leave E.L. and do internships and professional work. Some students stay over the summer but it does not compare to the general student population. Also, summer is a good time for faculty to undertake research and other academic work off campus. I would say that the academic freedom given to students and faculty during the summer, together with lack of non-University full-time, professional jobs in downtown E.L., are big factors for having an unpopulated downtown.
Also, I perceive that the activity in the hospitality sector remains decent during the summer because of outreach programs and other University activities.
Having spent some time there during the summer, I think that the festivals bring good pedestrian activity downtown and would suggest city council be creative in maintaining the festivals downtown. Even having them in MSU land near downtown or near the Broad Art Museum would be good options. I am sure the University would be open to that. The current setting is not ideal. Aestethically is not good. Even think that having them in the top level of the parking structure would be an upgrade.
More full-time jobs downtown and in the city are necessary to maintain a vibrant downtown year round. Nevertheless, if there is 1 thing the city should negotiate and be creative in light of proposed projects is keeping festivals downtown. Have them build a small venue, like the MSU Summer Circle Theatre Stage.
Wow, I hadn't seen the new MSU Summer Circle Theater Stage until now. I didn't know that this got built between the Auditorium and Kresge.
East Lansing has something similar, though a bit smaller at the corner of MAC and Albert.
I think both downtown East Lansing and Lansing have similar problems, there are times that almost everyone leaves. The tourist season in the town I where I lived was lengthened by having many different kinds of festivals that would attract different groups. There could be events that happen every week like a night market that set up on the empty streets, with food drinks, arts and crafts, entertainment say every Friday or Saturday night in the summer. Local performer competitions could draw lots of people. Just a bit of creativity and promotion, combined with something fun and interesting would help fill these downtown's during the off "season".
EastLansingInfo has a rendering of the new sorority house. I like the all-brick, it looks nice and increases the density of the area.
More info at: http://eastlansinginfo.org/content/public-hearing-coming-sorority-house-proposed-replace-historic-district-house
Having never really been involved in "Greek life" I have to admit I'm surprised that fraternities/sororities have the capital to pull off building something like this. It just seems like something from days long past to me. But, I guess I don't really know what it's like to be part of one.
Well, just like anything in a capitalistic society, "Greek life" is pretty much a business. Most people that join this sorority are signing up for a 3-year apartment lease. Businesses own franchises for the sororities/fraternities and these are basically glorified co-ops. So in that sense, it's easy to see the funding for this. A new building will increase demand for the rooms in it as well as the increased occupancy will become increased revenues.