As someone who spends a lot of their time driving all around the southside, I'd have to agree with you. To point out the positive first, things do seem to have bottomed out somewhere in the last 5-15 years and are slowly getting better. It'd be easiest to just list the positive things that have happened within the last few years:
-New Meijers
-The upcoming southside pathway
-Southside Community Center
-New small plaza at MLK & Holmes that's actually very well built
-Logan Square was remodeled, looks like it has fairly low vacancy. (Not to say it's very nice, but it's such an improvement over what it was, let alone if it were abandoned)
-Old Holiday Inn was remodeled and rebranded as Best Western Plus
-Several credit unions have built new buildings
-Several new dollar stores in areas that haven't seen any new retail in a long time
While all this certainly isn't impressive, nor is any of it very desirable developments, it does show that these corridors are not dead. You mentioned Cedar between Greenlawn and Holmes, even there things are a bit better. The gas station at Brookland and Cedar was finally tore down, another building down there was used to sell fireworks out of getting it's first use since I can remember and the buildings across from the old south precinct were restored. On MLK a few small, long vacant retail buildings have recently been reoccupied also, I just feel like the area is on the verge of some real improvements.
I think the best tactic to really reviving the southside is twofold: Cedar and MLK are the main target for redevelopment, second priority are select intersections away from those corridors. On Cedar and MLK, the city could do great by burying power lines, installing more welcoming streetlights and figuring out a solution to streetscaping that's low cost and low maintenance so we don't see a repeat of Cedar's current streetscaping. There are plenty of intersections that need varying degrees of improvement, but there's no better example than Holmes & Pleasant Grove. That little node of trash retail and apartments within two or three blocks of there has been a huge detriment to that neighborhood.
The key point for me in all this is that the southside is for the most part in decent shape. It shouldn't take too much work to stabilize it and get it to where it's steadily improving. Like you, I just hope it isn't ignored. If it is it will likely bring down the whole city, undoing all that's been done up until that point.
I really do appreciate you bringing up the bright spots. I felt a little bad after typing the post, because for as bad as I think it looks, it's only relative to what I think it should look like. Places like Saginaw and Flint and Detroit would kill to have many of these "bad" areas in Lansing. The things I most noticed as improvements are the southside Meijer that you mentioned, and the new construction near the intersection of Penn and Cedar. BTW, I mentioned Cedar and Brookland because though they've finally torn down the property, they don't keep the lot clean, and that's one of my big points. The city needs to hold property owners more accountable for the appearances of their properties, rather they are occupied, abandoned or vacant. That would go a LONG way in attracting development and just generally making these areas more inviting.
I forgot to mention I was on the #8 CATA a few days before that that takes you up Pennsylvania, and it's having the same troubles along the avenue south of Jolly. The car dealerships are doing well and were architecturally upgraded some years ago, but a lot of the other retail looks to be struggling.
I completely agree on burying utilities wherever possible. I hate that it's so expensive. BTW, I've heard people complain about the Cedar Street scaping - and I'm assuming they mean the area in between Jolly and Cavanaugh when they say this. I actually think even poorly maintained it's much better than having nothing. I guess they could save up the concrete flower berms, but I appreciate the pavers and ornamental trees. Maybe, they could add some decorative trash cans and some minimal shubbery if cost is an issue.
Anyway, just thought I'd bring this up. Downtown and the eastside get so much attention. I'd now like to see Virg and the city council focus on the nuts-and-bolts of the southside. The good thing about the southside is that you don't need huge projects like the Stadium District or Market Place to revitalize it. Just attracting some really simple businesses and restaurant could do wonders.
That said, I could see completely reworking Logan Square even though it was renovated a few years back. You can barely see the actual stores from the edge of property, let alone from MLK. It's way too much parking for its modern usage. You could construct thousands of square feet of extra space (retail, office, restaurant, hell, maybe even some apartments) within the complex and still have room for ample parking. I remember even just as recently as the 90's the place being really busy.
Yeah, Logan Square is going to make for a helluva redevelopment project someday, I'm not sure what exists now will ever be able to be put to good use though. I think the only way to bring life to that property would be to raze everything there and build a large mixed use development that brings the retail closer to street and puts some residential further back.
When it comes to Pennsylvania there really much to say. That corridor is struggling and always has, it's not cohesive enough, as you said the car lots are the only things really holding it together. Whereas with Cedar and MLK I see real opportunities for improvement, there's no clear solution to south Penn's conundrum, it may be the type of thing a master plan could fix though.
On a side note I just reminded myself of something to watch out for on the southside: the potential redevelopment of Walter French. I seem to remember reading an article somewhat recently about Eyde turning it into apartments. It certainly would be good for the area, a great use for the building and given the improving housing market it seems more likely than ever. If it does get done it could lead to one of my favorite dream projects in Lansing, a mixed use redevelopment of that whole factory area at Mt Hope and Washington.
The LJS has a recap of all the road projects this construction season. A few that stuck out to me are:
- Reconstruction of Moores River Drive as a two-lane road with pathways along the side between Mt. Hope and Waverly. The intersection with Waverly Road will also be reconfigured, though, I'm not sure of the details.
- West Holmes between Cedar and MLK will get totally reconstructed. Is it just me, or is this lane ever-so-slightly more narrow than other four-lane roads? It's like there is no room for error.
- Pennsylvania looks to be resurface from Mt. Hope to the bridge over 496.
- On the southeast side, Jolly finally gets repaved in between Dunckel and Collins.
- A cable barrier is being installed in the median of I-96 from Cedar Street all the way up to the Clinton/Eaton county line.
- Hagadorn is resurfaced between Burcham and Haslett Road.
On the topic of South Lansing / Cedar Street... I agree with comments above regarding the need for improvements (I live in southeast Lansing). Similar to the areas of new development downtown (around Stadium district, etc), I wish that the city would place more emphasis on improvements along the Cedar Street/Pennsylvania corridor near the I-96 interchange. Cedar Street south of I-96 - toward Holt - is generally nice. North of I-96 I think could use streetscape improvements, perhaps upgrades to the hotel (former Days Inn). The vacant plot of land across Pennsylvania from Meijer needs something (I recall a Sonic had been planned there). The freeway access is a definite plus - though I wish the DOT would improve the I-96 on/off ramps. The new Meijer will be an improvement. Seems to me that the Applebee's/Findley's/Pizza Hut plaza, Edgewood area, and business park near Executive Drive have potential for growth. I guess my hope is that any improvements in the extreme southern end would expand north along Cedar and Pennsylvania. I have similar hopes that the improvements downtown will expand southward into REO Town.
The LSJ is reporting that the idea of selling off surplus city property is gaining steam. The oft-discussed selling off of city hall gets the most news. Hollister had thrown around this idea, and now he's pushing Virg to do the same, and Virg seems interested.
I think it's clear that that is a valuable site, so I get the reasoning behind this. But I have some very real reservations, and almost none of them have been met. First, from just a kind of sentimental point, I really like the idea of city hall being across the street from the capital, and that the city hall plaza is a great place for people gather and even protest. Second, with the city obviously not having money to build a new one, I feel city operations might end up in some non-descript building on the southside or something not really symbolic of civic operations; it'd almost certainly sit behind some large surface parking lot, as parking has always been an issue brought up by detractors of the current building.
The best city halls are those built as such to show off what your citizens can do. As much as it's derided, the existing city hall is actually a really impressive building that you can mistake for nothing other than a city hall.
I'd find it incredibly hard to believe that Bernero or anyone on the council would go for a plan to sell CIty Hall unless there was a plan to move seamlessly into a new building downtown.
The idea they always discussed before was to combine all city offices, the county courts and Lansing police/jail into one new facility. I hope that's still the plan. I think that the only way for it to make sense is if it involves as many components as possible. If it does play out that way, this is going to be a big project, probably over 500k sq ft. I imagine they could buy the lot in front of Constitution Hall from Eyde and split the block up into two or three buildings along with a parking ramp and a sort of public square. That'd be my ideal outcome of a City Hall move.
I think that's kind of the implication, that there are already facilities in mind. It's clear that this has moved way further along than when Hollister first threw it out there. The article was pretty explicit in saying that they are basically studying whether to renovate city hall over move out, and Bernero doesn't seem to interested in renovation.
Agree with pretty much all your comments - but one saving grace here might be the creation of a second hotel downtown, which is desperately needed. If the right tenant moves in...
Comments
-New Meijers
-The upcoming southside pathway
-Southside Community Center
-New small plaza at MLK & Holmes that's actually very well built
-Logan Square was remodeled, looks like it has fairly low vacancy. (Not to say it's very nice, but it's such an improvement over what it was, let alone if it were abandoned)
-Old Holiday Inn was remodeled and rebranded as Best Western Plus
-Several credit unions have built new buildings
-Several new dollar stores in areas that haven't seen any new retail in a long time
While all this certainly isn't impressive, nor is any of it very desirable developments, it does show that these corridors are not dead. You mentioned Cedar between Greenlawn and Holmes, even there things are a bit better. The gas station at Brookland and Cedar was finally tore down, another building down there was used to sell fireworks out of getting it's first use since I can remember and the buildings across from the old south precinct were restored. On MLK a few small, long vacant retail buildings have recently been reoccupied also, I just feel like the area is on the verge of some real improvements.
I think the best tactic to really reviving the southside is twofold: Cedar and MLK are the main target for redevelopment, second priority are select intersections away from those corridors. On Cedar and MLK, the city could do great by burying power lines, installing more welcoming streetlights and figuring out a solution to streetscaping that's low cost and low maintenance so we don't see a repeat of Cedar's current streetscaping. There are plenty of intersections that need varying degrees of improvement, but there's no better example than Holmes & Pleasant Grove. That little node of trash retail and apartments within two or three blocks of there has been a huge detriment to that neighborhood.
The key point for me in all this is that the southside is for the most part in decent shape. It shouldn't take too much work to stabilize it and get it to where it's steadily improving. Like you, I just hope it isn't ignored. If it is it will likely bring down the whole city, undoing all that's been done up until that point.
I forgot to mention I was on the #8 CATA a few days before that that takes you up Pennsylvania, and it's having the same troubles along the avenue south of Jolly. The car dealerships are doing well and were architecturally upgraded some years ago, but a lot of the other retail looks to be struggling.
I completely agree on burying utilities wherever possible. I hate that it's so expensive. BTW, I've heard people complain about the Cedar Street scaping - and I'm assuming they mean the area in between Jolly and Cavanaugh when they say this. I actually think even poorly maintained it's much better than having nothing. I guess they could save up the concrete flower berms, but I appreciate the pavers and ornamental trees. Maybe, they could add some decorative trash cans and some minimal shubbery if cost is an issue.
Anyway, just thought I'd bring this up. Downtown and the eastside get so much attention. I'd now like to see Virg and the city council focus on the nuts-and-bolts of the southside. The good thing about the southside is that you don't need huge projects like the Stadium District or Market Place to revitalize it. Just attracting some really simple businesses and restaurant could do wonders.
That said, I could see completely reworking Logan Square even though it was renovated a few years back. You can barely see the actual stores from the edge of property, let alone from MLK. It's way too much parking for its modern usage. You could construct thousands of square feet of extra space (retail, office, restaurant, hell, maybe even some apartments) within the complex and still have room for ample parking. I remember even just as recently as the 90's the place being really busy.
When it comes to Pennsylvania there really much to say. That corridor is struggling and always has, it's not cohesive enough, as you said the car lots are the only things really holding it together. Whereas with Cedar and MLK I see real opportunities for improvement, there's no clear solution to south Penn's conundrum, it may be the type of thing a master plan could fix though.
On a side note I just reminded myself of something to watch out for on the southside: the potential redevelopment of Walter French. I seem to remember reading an article somewhat recently about Eyde turning it into apartments. It certainly would be good for the area, a great use for the building and given the improving housing market it seems more likely than ever. If it does get done it could lead to one of my favorite dream projects in Lansing, a mixed use redevelopment of that whole factory area at Mt Hope and Washington.
- Reconstruction of Moores River Drive as a two-lane road with pathways along the side between Mt. Hope and Waverly. The intersection with Waverly Road will also be reconfigured, though, I'm not sure of the details.
- West Holmes between Cedar and MLK will get totally reconstructed. Is it just me, or is this lane ever-so-slightly more narrow than other four-lane roads? It's like there is no room for error.
- Pennsylvania looks to be resurface from Mt. Hope to the bridge over 496.
- On the southeast side, Jolly finally gets repaved in between Dunckel and Collins.
- A cable barrier is being installed in the median of I-96 from Cedar Street all the way up to the Clinton/Eaton county line.
- Hagadorn is resurfaced between Burcham and Haslett Road.
I think it's clear that that is a valuable site, so I get the reasoning behind this. But I have some very real reservations, and almost none of them have been met. First, from just a kind of sentimental point, I really like the idea of city hall being across the street from the capital, and that the city hall plaza is a great place for people gather and even protest. Second, with the city obviously not having money to build a new one, I feel city operations might end up in some non-descript building on the southside or something not really symbolic of civic operations; it'd almost certainly sit behind some large surface parking lot, as parking has always been an issue brought up by detractors of the current building.
The best city halls are those built as such to show off what your citizens can do. As much as it's derided, the existing city hall is actually a really impressive building that you can mistake for nothing other than a city hall.
I just hope the city really does its homework.
The idea they always discussed before was to combine all city offices, the county courts and Lansing police/jail into one new facility. I hope that's still the plan. I think that the only way for it to make sense is if it involves as many components as possible. If it does play out that way, this is going to be a big project, probably over 500k sq ft. I imagine they could buy the lot in front of Constitution Hall from Eyde and split the block up into two or three buildings along with a parking ramp and a sort of public square. That'd be my ideal outcome of a City Hall move.