As a Lansing citizen I never find a reason to go to city hall. To me it's wasting valuable real estate. As long as the building is still there I'm happy. The plaza always struck me as one of those typical '60s/'70s plazas that nobody ever uses and are now considered a mistake. The plazas look great on architectural models but aren't very functional. There's so much empty space built into the capitol grounds... why would we need more across the street? I'm usually huge on preservation but the plaza is practically nothing, some cheap benches and basic concrete.
It's fascinating to me that people would want to tear down East Lansing's historic downtown and yet would spend even a second worrying about that plaza. Also it's interesting that the old Lansing State Journal building is an undesirable location, considering that before Grand Ave was floated here as a great spot for a hotel. I think you'd have to agree with me that Grand Ave is not a desirable spot for a hotel as it stands. Redevelop it a bit first and then maybe we'd have something there.
Finally, I don't think Lansing particularly needs a 30 story building. I'd rather see that sort of development spread throughout downtown in the form of multiple buildings, especially since a 30 story building would get a bunch of people into a lather about needing more parking.
The location of City Hall is to some people is symbolic of our local government standing right in front of the powerful State government in a way demanding to be seen right outside the Capitol's windows. The Plaza in the front suffers from the same neglect as the building itself and could be re-imagined in many ways. Suppose they did build a hotel tower in that space, how much would the people who live in Lansing use that building? When was the last time you went to the Raddison for dinner? Whatever the plaza is now it belongs to the people of Lansing, and to me it would be better to keep it that way. However, if this deal does happen I like the plan that keeps the Mid-century building and they should build a new City Hall that is as bold and impressive as the change from the 19th century City Hall to the 20th century City hall.
I do not think anyone wants a historic building in E.L. to be torn down, I think I am just dealing with the fact that the buildings were not very interesting in the first place and other than being old in years they were not very historic and may have served their purpose. There are still many examples of this architecture on East Grand River.
The bank building on Grand River had a great facade hidden under that urban renewal nightmare - much of which I suspect could've been restored - and I think the building with the old Thai Hut was such a nice, gritty classic urban building. The building that housed Charlie Kang had that great entrance with the archway and wooden doors. All those little details will be replaced by a Target and a development we're still waiting to be finalized. It's good to get retail and groceries downtown, but you could've just put a Target in the Albert Ave parking lot. But oh well. If anyone redevelops MAX or the other side of Abbot, old downtown East Lansing's days will be numbered.
I guess if the consensus is that the plaza is more interesting than those buildings, I won't argue too much. But I really don't get it. Especially, with the staggering amount of public space across the street.
I like that a hotel would bring visitors to the downtown, rather than the building being some stuffy place you visit only out of necessity. I think the current city hall is more of a nice idea than nice in practice.
Whether or not a hotel faces the Capitol is simply not going to affect the number of visitors that come here. Practically giving away one of the most prominent pieces of land in the infancy of what could be a major revitalization of the city is a bad idea. To give it away to get such a mediocre development makes it worse and to get the joke of a city hall replacement that's been proposed adds insult to injury and is unacceptable. To say that putting city hall on a side street facing the side entrance of a bus depot is undesirable is an understatement.
Grand Ave is long street and parts are more desirable than others, the empty lot at Grand & Michigan would be my first choice for a hotel, I believe it's owned by Gentilozzi, the Grandview building is a good place for something new also. There's also a few spots on Washington that could house a large development: the YMCA building, the building that had the Secretary of State and the Citi Bank building & neighbors are all good candidates for demolition and major redevelopment.
As for the building in downtown EL, I'm all for saving old brick buildings, especially multi-floor ones. Like the buildings razed at Clemens & Michigan the buildings in EL had basically no special architectural value, they were only valuable because the old downtown EL was so small and there weren't many buildings to begin with. They simply became a victim of their location, being in the busiest part of downtown facing MSU's campus made them vulnerable. What's replacing them is pretty decent as far as I can tell and will bring in more people and money and hopefully help set the stage for much better things to come.
In the urban renewal days of the 60's and 70's they knocked down about half of downtown Lansing which had dozens of historical beautiful 19th and 20th-century buildings. I would say that being historic or beautiful has not really meant much to this area when it comes to new developments or building highways. In the case of E.L. downtown replacing the two-story commercial buildings on E. Grand River started a long time ago when they built the Jacobson's department store. The new development [if it happens] will be more than a Target Store, which I for one might actually shop in, and will increase foot traffic that will benefit all of the local businesses.
To veer discussion into a different discussion, I'm curious to hear where people think Greater Lansing will be in ten years. I've only lived here a little over a year, so I don't have the same perspective many of you here likely do.
I feel silly to write this, but I wonder when or if Lansing will reach a tipping point and become a "hip" city. Will it ever be looked at the same way Madison or Ann Arbor are? I'd visit Lansing now and then before moving here, and I can tell that there's been quite a bit of progress made over the last decade.
In fact, I think one of Lansing's biggest problems right now is its image. A lot of people in the region still think that there's nothing to do. For example, I was talking to someone born and raised Lansing that was really excited that a barcade was opening in Detroit. When I told him that Lansing has two barcades, he had no idea. He just assumes that Lansing would never have anything "cool." He usually goes to East Lansing when he goes out.
Not to mention all the people that have no idea about Grand Ledge.
I feel like Lansing needs some kind of event or business that grabs attention across the state. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but Lansing doesn't seem to have a Founders (Grand Rapids), Slows (Detroit), or Zingerman's (Ann Arbor). That's not to say that there aren't some awesome businesses in Lansing. But none seem to possess that kind of draw currently. It could be a marketing issue. I'm not sure. It's interesting to think about.
That's not to say I necessarily want Lansing to be a hip city on the level of Ann Arbor. I like that it's not overhyped. It's extremely affordable and has a decent amount of things to do.
I think that there may be a bit of truth to the thought that many people who live in Lansing have a poor opinion of our town. I grew up here then moved away for 35 years and moved back. I can tell you that Lansing is a lot "cooler" than 1980, and there are many things to do and places to shop and eat that we just did not have back then. Neighborhoods that were never a destination, are now cool places with their own names and identities. I guess what I mean is, that there is plenty about Lansing that is cool. People who do not or maybe cannot afford to participate in the activities and events around town are the ones who think Lansing is not very cool. I have not been to Ann Arbor but they have several advantages Lansing does not have, built into that area. Greater wealth and population in the area, and one central downtown, where the university is also sited are a couple of those advantages. I would guess that more folks in Ann Arbor think it is a cool place because they are told it is a cool place all the time. Better P.R. is what we need.
Here are some interesting stats, gbdinlansing: Greater Lansing has a higher GDP than metro Ann Arbor and has over 100,000 more people. Of course Ann Arbor is more economically integrated into the much larger Detroit area (it's part of the Detroit combined statistical area) and Lansing's GDP is only a tad higher despite having a big population lead.
On that note, probably Lansing's biggest challenge is the poverty rate. I don't have the exact stat, but I know it's very high. Lansing would've been Flint or Saginaw without the state government and university helping to nudge it along into the 21st century.
Comments
As a Lansing citizen I never find a reason to go to city hall. To me it's wasting valuable real estate. As long as the building is still there I'm happy. The plaza always struck me as one of those typical '60s/'70s plazas that nobody ever uses and are now considered a mistake. The plazas look great on architectural models but aren't very functional. There's so much empty space built into the capitol grounds... why would we need more across the street? I'm usually huge on preservation but the plaza is practically nothing, some cheap benches and basic concrete.
It's fascinating to me that people would want to tear down East Lansing's historic downtown and yet would spend even a second worrying about that plaza. Also it's interesting that the old Lansing State Journal building is an undesirable location, considering that before Grand Ave was floated here as a great spot for a hotel. I think you'd have to agree with me that Grand Ave is not a desirable spot for a hotel as it stands. Redevelop it a bit first and then maybe we'd have something there.
Finally, I don't think Lansing particularly needs a 30 story building. I'd rather see that sort of development spread throughout downtown in the form of multiple buildings, especially since a 30 story building would get a bunch of people into a lather about needing more parking.
The location of City Hall is to some people is symbolic of our local government standing right in front of the powerful State government in a way demanding to be seen right outside the Capitol's windows. The Plaza in the front suffers from the same neglect as the building itself and could be re-imagined in many ways. Suppose they did build a hotel tower in that space, how much would the people who live in Lansing use that building? When was the last time you went to the Raddison for dinner? Whatever the plaza is now it belongs to the people of Lansing, and to me it would be better to keep it that way. However, if this deal does happen I like the plan that keeps the Mid-century building and they should build a new City Hall that is as bold and impressive as the change from the 19th century City Hall to the 20th century City hall.
I do not think anyone wants a historic building in E.L. to be torn down, I think I am just dealing with the fact that the buildings were not very interesting in the first place and other than being old in years they were not very historic and may have served their purpose. There are still many examples of this architecture on East Grand River.
The bank building on Grand River had a great facade hidden under that urban renewal nightmare - much of which I suspect could've been restored - and I think the building with the old Thai Hut was such a nice, gritty classic urban building. The building that housed Charlie Kang had that great entrance with the archway and wooden doors. All those little details will be replaced by a Target and a development we're still waiting to be finalized. It's good to get retail and groceries downtown, but you could've just put a Target in the Albert Ave parking lot. But oh well. If anyone redevelops MAX or the other side of Abbot, old downtown East Lansing's days will be numbered.
I guess if the consensus is that the plaza is more interesting than those buildings, I won't argue too much. But I really don't get it. Especially, with the staggering amount of public space across the street.
I like that a hotel would bring visitors to the downtown, rather than the building being some stuffy place you visit only out of necessity. I think the current city hall is more of a nice idea than nice in practice.
For what it's worth- I've been pretty vocal about my distaste for the post-modern architecture and the outdated plaza.
Whether or not a hotel faces the Capitol is simply not going to affect the number of visitors that come here. Practically giving away one of the most prominent pieces of land in the infancy of what could be a major revitalization of the city is a bad idea. To give it away to get such a mediocre development makes it worse and to get the joke of a city hall replacement that's been proposed adds insult to injury and is unacceptable. To say that putting city hall on a side street facing the side entrance of a bus depot is undesirable is an understatement.
Grand Ave is long street and parts are more desirable than others, the empty lot at Grand & Michigan would be my first choice for a hotel, I believe it's owned by Gentilozzi, the Grandview building is a good place for something new also. There's also a few spots on Washington that could house a large development: the YMCA building, the building that had the Secretary of State and the Citi Bank building & neighbors are all good candidates for demolition and major redevelopment.
As for the building in downtown EL, I'm all for saving old brick buildings, especially multi-floor ones. Like the buildings razed at Clemens & Michigan the buildings in EL had basically no special architectural value, they were only valuable because the old downtown EL was so small and there weren't many buildings to begin with. They simply became a victim of their location, being in the busiest part of downtown facing MSU's campus made them vulnerable. What's replacing them is pretty decent as far as I can tell and will bring in more people and money and hopefully help set the stage for much better things to come.
In the urban renewal days of the 60's and 70's they knocked down about half of downtown Lansing which had dozens of historical beautiful 19th and 20th-century buildings. I would say that being historic or beautiful has not really meant much to this area when it comes to new developments or building highways. In the case of E.L. downtown replacing the two-story commercial buildings on E. Grand River started a long time ago when they built the Jacobson's department store. The new development [if it happens] will be more than a Target Store, which I for one might actually shop in, and will increase foot traffic that will benefit all of the local businesses.
Magnate - having watched the big bank building come down over the course of several days, I'm not sure there was much of the facade left.
gbd - I think you're on track with the idea target store being a retail anchor for the downtown.
To veer discussion into a different discussion, I'm curious to hear where people think Greater Lansing will be in ten years. I've only lived here a little over a year, so I don't have the same perspective many of you here likely do.
I feel silly to write this, but I wonder when or if Lansing will reach a tipping point and become a "hip" city. Will it ever be looked at the same way Madison or Ann Arbor are? I'd visit Lansing now and then before moving here, and I can tell that there's been quite a bit of progress made over the last decade.
In fact, I think one of Lansing's biggest problems right now is its image. A lot of people in the region still think that there's nothing to do. For example, I was talking to someone born and raised Lansing that was really excited that a barcade was opening in Detroit. When I told him that Lansing has two barcades, he had no idea. He just assumes that Lansing would never have anything "cool." He usually goes to East Lansing when he goes out.
Not to mention all the people that have no idea about Grand Ledge.
I feel like Lansing needs some kind of event or business that grabs attention across the state. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but Lansing doesn't seem to have a Founders (Grand Rapids), Slows (Detroit), or Zingerman's (Ann Arbor). That's not to say that there aren't some awesome businesses in Lansing. But none seem to possess that kind of draw currently. It could be a marketing issue. I'm not sure. It's interesting to think about.
That's not to say I necessarily want Lansing to be a hip city on the level of Ann Arbor. I like that it's not overhyped. It's extremely affordable and has a decent amount of things to do.
I think that there may be a bit of truth to the thought that many people who live in Lansing have a poor opinion of our town. I grew up here then moved away for 35 years and moved back. I can tell you that Lansing is a lot "cooler" than 1980, and there are many things to do and places to shop and eat that we just did not have back then. Neighborhoods that were never a destination, are now cool places with their own names and identities. I guess what I mean is, that there is plenty about Lansing that is cool. People who do not or maybe cannot afford to participate in the activities and events around town are the ones who think Lansing is not very cool. I have not been to Ann Arbor but they have several advantages Lansing does not have, built into that area. Greater wealth and population in the area, and one central downtown, where the university is also sited are a couple of those advantages. I would guess that more folks in Ann Arbor think it is a cool place because they are told it is a cool place all the time. Better P.R. is what we need.
Here are some interesting stats, gbdinlansing: Greater Lansing has a higher GDP than metro Ann Arbor and has over 100,000 more people. Of course Ann Arbor is more economically integrated into the much larger Detroit area (it's part of the Detroit combined statistical area) and Lansing's GDP is only a tad higher despite having a big population lead.
On that note, probably Lansing's biggest challenge is the poverty rate. I don't have the exact stat, but I know it's very high. Lansing would've been Flint or Saginaw without the state government and university helping to nudge it along into the 21st century.