I'm pretty sure based on the layout that Saginaw would be at the top of the image (not represented). Canal to the right, Francis on bottom. At least based on the site orientation and the shape of the existing parking lot. Saginaw being on the right wouldn't make any sense. The orientation is wrong. I-96 would be on the left.
Yeah, you're right. The differences include that this new hotel (since it will be taller and thus losing less of the site) is still pushed back even further off of Canal, then. I guess the real problem of this site is that you can't have a driveway or entrance off of Saginaw because of the freeway interchange.
Anyway, I think what confused me is that I misplaced the hotel at the site of the one across Canal. Still, the site plan could be improved, regardless, by stretching the hotel along part of the Canal frontage and tucking the parking into the back. You could keep the layout of the out-lot buildings largely the same, but move them closer to or on Saginaw and put the first driveway to the parking lot out back between them and the hotel now stretched along Canal. You could also then put more of the traffic with driveways off of Francis Court which makes up the southern border of the property.
There are just ways simple things that you can do to suburban sites to mitigate some of the ugliness of how they function. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that maybe we start tucking parking behind - or maybe even just more to the side of - the actual buildings on these sites as best we can. I mean, if they can do this stuff in already sprawled to hell suburban Atlanta, Dallas, etc...there is no reason they can't do it, here, where even the suburbs are usually more gridded/structured.
I'm about as pro-development as they come, but I'm a bit skeptical about this one working out. The place is going to be huge. From the article "Tequila Cowboy holds about 900 people. An enclosed outdoor patio, which will be open year-round, has the capacity for 785, and Wanna B’s can hold another 200"
I just don't know that they're going to be anywhere near 50% capacity, it seems overly ambitious. It's a good spot for a restaurant with the theater right there, but this one seems a bit out there for Delta Township.
Interesting concept, and it certainly does seem awfully ambitious, but I'd like to see them try it. The idea of them bringing up Nashville acts every Friday sounds exciting. Lansing could afford to have more live music venues. Question, though. Is this where the Toby Keith's was going to be? I ask, because they are talking about a December 3rd opening, which is an awfully short time, which kind of implies that this has either gone completely under the radar for months or the space is so ready for a bar and stage that the mall could do a turnaround this quick.
I went to the Silver Bells celebration downtown for the first time last night. I was very impressed with the whole event, and enjoyed seeing all the folks and kids having so much fun downtown. The shops and restaurants were packed as was the little market they set up. My only slight comment would be to find that guy who imports "fan tape" through the airport and buy some Holiday tape for crowd control. Everything was very festive except for yellow police cation tape and big traffic barrels everywhere. I could really see a Ice skating pond set up in Adado Park and maybe a Holiday/Christmas market there to keep people coming downtown all season.
I think that if you give the people a little something fun they will show up as witnessed at Silver Bells, so if the new bar which sounds huge, is going to be successful the live music plan is a good one, it will attract people who might not otherwise go to a bar in a mall.
Didn't go this year, but have been a handful of times as a kid and teen.
Funny you bring up an ice rink, because the city was actually going to install one as part of Market Place, but they were only going to do it if they were able to get grants for it that they never nailed down. I'd really like to see the city keep that idea alive, particularly with downtown more crowded than at the time when it was proposed. We do need more "place-making" things like that. The rink in Campus Martius in Detroit is awesome, and it makes their downtown tree lighting just that much better. Here's a photo from their annual tree-lighting event, last night:
When I was a kid in the 60's the city would flood the ball fields at at least four parks in the winter for ice skating. We went to Quentin Park. There was a warming house that the neighborhood called the hot house, with no frills like a snack bar, just a window to check your boots, and benches full of really load kids.The warming house is still there at Sycamore Park. I guess winters were more reliably cold back then but a worker would come out in the middle of the night and spray the rink to resurface the ice. There were thaws then as well sometimes it meant the end of skating that year sometimes if it got cold soon enough they would open up again. There would be hundreds of people there most nights and on weekends, we skated to The Supremes and The Four Season it was really fun. I never skated on an indoor rink until a few years ago, during some winters out east you can skate on the ponds that freeze over.
My idea of what I would do downtown is have a really big rink filling the whole flat of Adado Park, maybe a huge oval or an wide oval track with a bonfire in the middle. They can put down almost any shape of ice rink these days. Maybe charge a small fee to help pay for it that plus some corporate sponsors and maybe it would not cost the city too much. Build an ice rink and people will come.
Speaking of ice rinks, though I was never a big skater, does anyone remember what happened to the Washington Park ice rinks? My school took us down there a few times in the 90's, and then I remember in the next decade there being this huge fight as the city downscaled its services whether to sell it off or close it. I can't remember how it turned out and haven't been down there since I've been an adults. I vaguely the mayor wanting to either sale it off or close it when the city budget began to crater, but can't remember what ultimately happened. Anyway, there was an outdoor rink and a covered indoor rink both very well maintained and professional from what I can remember. My first time there was actually my first time on ice, but I didn't really want anyone to know. But, they could quickly tell. lol
Comments
Anyway, I think what confused me is that I misplaced the hotel at the site of the one across Canal. Still, the site plan could be improved, regardless, by stretching the hotel along part of the Canal frontage and tucking the parking into the back. You could keep the layout of the out-lot buildings largely the same, but move them closer to or on Saginaw and put the first driveway to the parking lot out back between them and the hotel now stretched along Canal. You could also then put more of the traffic with driveways off of Francis Court which makes up the southern border of the property.
There are just ways simple things that you can do to suburban sites to mitigate some of the ugliness of how they function. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that maybe we start tucking parking behind - or maybe even just more to the side of - the actual buildings on these sites as best we can. I mean, if they can do this stuff in already sprawled to hell suburban Atlanta, Dallas, etc...there is no reason they can't do it, here, where even the suburbs are usually more gridded/structured.
I'm about as pro-development as they come, but I'm a bit skeptical about this one working out. The place is going to be huge. From the article "Tequila Cowboy holds about 900 people. An enclosed outdoor patio, which will be open year-round, has the capacity for 785, and Wanna B’s can hold another 200"
I just don't know that they're going to be anywhere near 50% capacity, it seems overly ambitious. It's a good spot for a restaurant with the theater right there, but this one seems a bit out there for Delta Township.
I hope it works out, it'd be great for the mall and for the region to have another live music venue.
I think that if you give the people a little something fun they will show up as witnessed at Silver Bells, so if the new bar which sounds huge, is going to be successful the live music plan is a good one, it will attract people who might not otherwise go to a bar in a mall.
Funny you bring up an ice rink, because the city was actually going to install one as part of Market Place, but they were only going to do it if they were able to get grants for it that they never nailed down. I'd really like to see the city keep that idea alive, particularly with downtown more crowded than at the time when it was proposed. We do need more "place-making" things like that. The rink in Campus Martius in Detroit is awesome, and it makes their downtown tree lighting just that much better. Here's a photo from their annual tree-lighting event, last night:
Detroit Free Press
My idea of what I would do downtown is have a really big rink filling the whole flat of Adado Park, maybe a huge oval or an wide oval track with a bonfire in the middle. They can put down almost any shape of ice rink these days. Maybe charge a small fee to help pay for it that plus some corporate sponsors and maybe it would not cost the city too much. Build an ice rink and people will come.