I don't think that's the case. Moving traffic quickly was the central concern which got them changed in the first place, but that's not say it's still the main concern or even that it should be. It's not like this hasn't been done before or as if every major downtown has these. Heck, just in the past two or so years some of the one-way crosses downtown went two ways without any major hiccups. It's not the same trying to do a trunkline, sure, but it's about priorities and values. There are cities that have (and are planning) to take out entire sections of freeway successfully. Cedar/Larch could definitely be converted without gumming things up too much. Saginaw could most definitely function as five lanes where it's at its widest. Lansing is fairly unsual for a city of this size with these paired up aerial one-ways. No other second or third tier in Michigan has these city-center edge to city-center edge (and in the base of Saginaw/Oakland borer-to-border) paired one ways of this size.
I'd notice how this made downtown Grand Rapids (east of the river) feel more connected with its neighborhoods to the east. The widest streets and through the downtown are five-lane two-ways; you honestly don't need bigger than that. In the case of Division, it even has reserved lanes (during certain periods) for a BRT.
It's not really a question of whether or not this could be done successfully. Heck, a full lane was taken out on Saginaw for a bike lane and this was only allowed to happen because it was proven what everyone already knew: the road was overbuilt. Even in the days when it was busier - it allowed truck traffic (particularly GM traffic) and commuters to cut through the city faster I imagine before the full completition of I-496 - it was adequate for traffic. Truth is that most cities recognized these kind of set-ups were a mistake.
The problem is that from Seymour to the Oakland-Saginaw junction there's no room to make Saginaw five lanes, much less allow room for right turn lanes or bike lanes, the exception being if you're willing to tear down one side of the street like on MLK, but I think there may be too many valuable structures in the way to do something like that on Saginaw. However, looking at the south side of the street west of Seymour there's not too much important, it wouldn't be totally unreasonable to tear down or move the houses to make way for an expanded street. It kinda makes me curious to know what sort of houses were along MLK where they expanded it to a boulevard.
Thank you for the correct population figures. I was thinking Lansing was up to about 147,000 at the the highest. Still taking 16,000 people off the streets is a lot. The traffic I have found since returning to Lansing just seems to be lighter than I remember in the 60's and 70's. It is an anecdotal observation based on driving around these past 8 months. I do not get out and drive around at five pm but I can see that the traffic is heavy on 496 but moves along and does not really back up unless there is a accident. The traffic on the main streets here seems to travel in packs because of the traffic lights, in between there is often no traffic at all which is great for making lefts. That seems to indicate less cars on the street to me. Of course I know that none of what I have suggested will be done.
Out in Mass. most roads are over capacity all the time except the middle of the night. One thing happens in the wrong place and the system comes to a halt. It is nice to live were the roads [however bad] are under capacity most of the time.
Over On MLK [Logan] they took out the first row of buildings on the west side from the bridge south. There were many small businesses and some of the oldest homes in the neighborhood along the west side of Logan. At our corner at Hammond and Logan there was our local market called Czoback's which was a full service grocery market and a Sonoco gas station. Up the street was what we called the skywalk overpass, it was built in memory of a little boy, Billy MacClintoc[spelling?] who was killed by an auto transport truck at Barnes and Logan, the Barnes Ave School crossing. His family owned the Cadillac dealership and paid to build the pedestrian overpass[the first one]. At Barnes and Logan there was a Bay gas station, another grocery, a hardware, and Probste"s drugstore, then a dinner, a barber, and up the street by Mt. Hope was the Casa Nova restaurant [the pizza taste exactly the same today the best!] at Goodrich,and a big wooden apartment building that housed one of the first Baskin and Robbin's 31 flavors ice cream shops in Lansing. From there on it was little cape and ranch style houses like you see now. So yes they took out the whole neighborhood.
With the metro being larger than its ever been, it's certainly not the case that there are less cars on the road here than decades ago (even with our increase in mass transit). But, I guess if it feels like less traffic, it's that traffic is better managed (i.e. stop lights are better timed) and the density of traffic may be less in some areas than it was in previous decades. I'd imagine there is WAY less local traffic (and way more commuter traffic) in and out of the downtown area since people live further out, now, which would make it seem like less traffic even if there is actually more traffic by raw numbers, but this is true of just about everywhere else in the country with a few exceptions given the growth of suburbs. It means you get a lot of traffic during a rush hour, but relatively quiet streets during most other times.
Speaking of traffic, though, I've definitely noticed quite a bit more than say than even ten years ago in Lansing proper. Up along Lake Lansing Road, the change in traffic is even more dramatic between the city and Lansing Township with the growth of Eastwood.
EDIT: Looks like I was wrong about the used car dealership at Larch and Saginaw. I saw some cars back in the lot, today, so maybe they were just shoveling it out or repairing it or changing out the product. Speaking of car dealerships, the old abandoned one down on MLK souht of Holmes is looking really nice. Makes me wonder if they have a tenant for it, or just bringing it back up to market it?
It could also be that in 30 some years driving around Mass., I have a different prospective on heavy traffic. Out there it was rarely fun or relaxing to drive. Here I have found that relaxed feeling just driving around the city, and minuets out of town you can be the only one on the road for miles. That to me is so great.
The urban sprawl along Lake Lansing Road is just the most recent version of the same. I wonder why people love this kind of development so much. Of course I have wondered that since they opened the Lansing and Meridian Malls.
There is a very interesting video posted on today's online LSJ from the 30's dramatically telling the story of the Michigan State Highway Department snow removal efforts "The Roads Must Be Kept Open"! There are some really cool snow plows and shots of winter fun in Michigan 30's style! No I don't remember those days!
The Potter Mill site by Potter Park Zoo on the south side of the river between Pennsylvania and Cedar St is getting reused. It will include 14,500sq ft of retail on the first floor and 23,000sq ft of commercial space on the second floor.
Interesting, but what an odd location. It sits at the end of South Street where the city has all of its fleet services and public service facilities. Even then, it cut off from the west by the Jackson & Lansing Railroad tracks and the CN Flint Subdivision to the south (and the Red Cedar to the north and east). Across the river is the BWL's warehouses and such. Like, there is no pedestrian connection whatsoever. Across the tracks to the south is the Baker-Donora area, but the city has been buying up the homes along the river since they are in a flood plain.
So, I guess I'm REALLY curious as to who the retail will be directed toward. I guess the city of Lansing and BWL workers in the area could benefit from this.
EDIT: Just read through the article. Seems the "retail" will be the retail outlet for the developers salvage operations.
The redevelopment includes 14,500 square feet on the first floor and 23,000 square feet on the second floor for commercial space, he said. Likely tenants will include craftsmen, builders and metal workers. Sears, who provided the recycled wood used at Lansing Brewing Co., plans to incorporate recycled wood from demolition sites into the warehouse's facade. He plans to operate the retail salvage store on the first floor of the two-story building.
This makes tons more sense than what we hear when we think "commercial and retail" redevelopment of a former warehouse.
This is a building that I would've never expected to see a renovation, yet here it is getting a new facade and it will occupied by a tenant(s) that makes total sense for the area. It's very good to see an off the beaten path building like this get a new life.
That is really exciting to hear, I often pass the building walking on the river trail, it's a mess right now. I think there is a sidewalk on the Beech St. bridge that could be extended down South St. to the site. I see lots of big trucks turning down South St. so there is a lot of activity down there already. I hope they will be removing the huge mound of broken pavement there right next to the river.
On the river trail along there it can be very unpleasant, the smell from the tar soaked utility poles is really strong on hot days. Maybe the BWL could put the poles on the other side of the lot. The Red Cedar looks pretty gross as it passes under the rail bridge there. Huge trees and branches have collected at the bridge creating a damn that catches all the floating litter and scum from the river,not too scenic. On the good side there are lots of really nice trees that would fill the view from the river side of the redeveloped building.
Comments
I'd notice how this made downtown Grand Rapids (east of the river) feel more connected with its neighborhoods to the east. The widest streets and through the downtown are five-lane two-ways; you honestly don't need bigger than that. In the case of Division, it even has reserved lanes (during certain periods) for a BRT.
It's not really a question of whether or not this could be done successfully. Heck, a full lane was taken out on Saginaw for a bike lane and this was only allowed to happen because it was proven what everyone already knew: the road was overbuilt. Even in the days when it was busier - it allowed truck traffic (particularly GM traffic) and commuters to cut through the city faster I imagine before the full completition of I-496 - it was adequate for traffic. Truth is that most cities recognized these kind of set-ups were a mistake.
Out in Mass. most roads are over capacity all the time except the middle of the night. One thing happens in the wrong place and the system comes to a halt. It is nice to live were the roads [however bad] are under capacity most of the time.
Over On MLK [Logan] they took out the first row of buildings on the west side from the bridge south. There were many small businesses and some of the oldest homes in the neighborhood along the west side of Logan. At our corner at Hammond and Logan there was our local market called Czoback's which was a full service grocery market and a Sonoco gas station. Up the street was what we called the skywalk overpass, it was built in memory of a little boy, Billy MacClintoc[spelling?] who was killed by an auto transport truck at Barnes and Logan, the Barnes Ave School crossing. His family owned the Cadillac dealership and paid to build the pedestrian overpass[the first one]. At Barnes and Logan there was a Bay gas station, another grocery, a hardware, and Probste"s drugstore, then a dinner, a barber, and up the street by Mt. Hope was the Casa Nova restaurant [the pizza taste exactly the same today the best!] at Goodrich,and a big wooden apartment building that housed one of the first Baskin and Robbin's 31 flavors ice cream shops in Lansing. From there on it was little cape and ranch style houses like you see now. So yes they took out the whole neighborhood.
Speaking of traffic, though, I've definitely noticed quite a bit more than say than even ten years ago in Lansing proper. Up along Lake Lansing Road, the change in traffic is even more dramatic between the city and Lansing Township with the growth of Eastwood.
EDIT: Looks like I was wrong about the used car dealership at Larch and Saginaw. I saw some cars back in the lot, today, so maybe they were just shoveling it out or repairing it or changing out the product. Speaking of car dealerships, the old abandoned one down on MLK souht of Holmes is looking really nice. Makes me wonder if they have a tenant for it, or just bringing it back up to market it?
The urban sprawl along Lake Lansing Road is just the most recent version of the same. I wonder why people love this kind of development so much. Of course I have wondered that since they opened the Lansing and Meridian Malls.
There is a very interesting video posted on today's online LSJ from the 30's dramatically telling the story of the Michigan State Highway Department snow removal efforts "The Roads Must Be Kept Open"! There are some really cool snow plows and shots of winter fun in Michigan 30's style! No I don't remember those days!
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2016/02/05/25m-project-rehab-former-knapps-warehouse/79870372/
So, I guess I'm REALLY curious as to who the retail will be directed toward. I guess the city of Lansing and BWL workers in the area could benefit from this.
EDIT: Just read through the article. Seems the "retail" will be the retail outlet for the developers salvage operations.
This makes tons more sense than what we hear when we think "commercial and retail" redevelopment of a former warehouse.
On the river trail along there it can be very unpleasant, the smell from the tar soaked utility poles is really strong on hot days. Maybe the BWL could put the poles on the other side of the lot. The Red Cedar looks pretty gross as it passes under the rail bridge there. Huge trees and branches have collected at the bridge creating a damn that catches all the floating litter and scum from the river,not too scenic. On the good side there are lots of really nice trees that would fill the view from the river side of the redeveloped building.