Tear down Dunhams and build this at that site.....it would be ten times more cost effective. This architecture is blah, at best. You guys are missing the point by talking about architecture 'style'.....that part is trivial compared to the building massing and site plan/strategy and how it relates to it's context. This rendering shows nothing of that. I would hate if Michigan avenue ends up looking (but more importantly, feeling) this generic. I'm very curious what makes you all think this is an acceptable use of our region's MOST prime real estate. This is aiming so low that it pains me. This doesn't look any different from Eastwood development.....it's a lifeless manifestion of market forces....it exists at a thousand other semi-urban locations across the country.....it contributes very little to a healthy or communal or exciting lifestyle. It's soulless. Is Lansing soulless??
btw, don't count on an architect's website for status updates on a project, this looks to me more like a promotional tool for their company. That said, they seem like a pretty good firm and I do take some comfort that out-of-town designers are involved.
This whole plinth thing is so crazy to to me. It seems like such a stooopid thing to do to build so heavy-handedly on floodplain land that (perhaps it may be artificial, from the golf course construction) but the gentle topography is looks, feels and performs like our original midwestern landscape pre-development. And we wanna put this fat, gaudy, money-making machine on top of it......and ruin it, permanently. This is way worse, and way more short-sighted than the Scotts woods pipe thing. There is so much other land to build on in the immediate vacinity.
I'm a landscape architect. This is one of the stupidest development proposals I've ever come across. I'm very disappointed by our region and the lack of dialogue or concern regarding this project. I grew up 5-min bike ride from here. Those woods, that land is mine. It sucks that this is being planned in my backyard.
I'm not going to defend the architecture or the last site plan they released, this project is subpar on both counts. It looks like the architecture will be very similar throughout the project and the whole thing will essentially be three large buildings on the plinth, though it sounds like some things may have changed. That being said this is definitely difficult land to build on, a plinth or ground floor parking are probably the only solutions and given those options I'd prefer the plinth as it allows ground floor retail. To me the highlight here is the park and the development of the Michigan Ave frontage. I wish there was more height along Michigan Ave and I wish that the development as a whole looked more like a real urban neighborhood/commercial district but as long as they don't make any more changes for the worse I'll take it.
I don't think it's a good gamble to hold out for something better to come along for this property, the wait could be forever and the failure of this development would be negative for the Frandor area. I don't think we need or should keep the whole thing as a park either, there's plenty of natural area here already. Starting across the river from this property there's a tract of undeveloped land, including Crego Park and Fenner, stretching to Forest road, only broken up by the freeway and the EL sewage plant.
Of course, I would like a much better design for this project. I was reacting to the drawings presented. The reality of the situation is something will be built on the former golf course. Why they ever started this whole development is another topic that seems to be beside the point now. Could it all be stopped and have the site remain parkland? That may very well happen as no shovels have hit the ground yet and if something fouls up the financing. IMO, building the whole thing above the flood plan is rather innovative. In the past developments would just bury the stream or drain and cover it with cement as they did for Frandor and the other malls, so to me, this plan is a sign of progress. I think it would be really awful to see this project fail.
The Lansing Brownfield Redevelopment Authority approved the project, today. Here is the new site plan I was talking about. They moved more buildings onto the plinth, and all but the hotels have been rearranged on the site. The senior village is no longer fronting Michigan at the corner from what I've heard.
I was wondering about the parking on the east end that was exchanged for moving the student housing to the plinth, but now I realize it's parking for the park. I love the park.
LANSING — Construction crews could break ground on a $250 million, six-building project on the former Red Cedar Golf Course as early as September.
The project will include 1,100 beds of student housing, 150 market-rate apartments, two hotels and an assisted living and memory-care facility. Plans also call for restaurants, retail space, an amphitheater and a public park.
And, under the terms of a brownfield plan which will be submitted to the City Council next week, Lansing would reimburse developers Joel Ferguson and Frank Kass for about $54 million worth of infrastructure work over a 30-year period, said Bob Trezise, the president and CEO of the Lansing Economic Area Partnership.
More:
The project also includes 25 acres of parkland and open space, including a river trail system.
Once the hotels, restaurants, retail spaces and the memory care facility are up and running, it is expected to create nearly 400 full-time jobs.
Remediation work for the plinth starts this summer.
I'm not thrilled with the massive parking lot where the student housing was and I don't like that they removed the north/south stream that ran through the project, but other than that I see some positive changes from the last site plan. I like that the buildings have gotten taller and I like the smaller building south of the senior housing. I still don't like the architecture and I like the uniformity even less, it'll be interesting to see more detailed renderings.
Between the large lot at the east end and the lot in the middle, this site plan is leaving a lot of room for future development, hopefully things go well enough to see it happen.
This is good news that I think says this thing is going to be built. I also wish the design would be bolder more urban. I hope it does not end up looking like an office park, I do think it will be animated with more people than an office park as a lot of people will be living there and visiting hopefully. A good design for the gateway to Michigan Ave that welcomes everyone, not just the people who live there will be very important. I will want to feel like I am visiting a neighborhood and a city park. I don't feel welcome to walk around the green spaces in most developments so this will have to be different to be successful and attract visitors.
That parking lot on the east side should really be about 1/4 of the size. It's only going to be full on football game days. They could probably remove it altogether honestly. Look at the size of the lot near the lake on the other side of the back drive. For a lot that is only close to the park/other properties, and knowing how little car-drivers are willing to walk, this lot will not get much use unless there is a main draw that will pull people there for events or a big park feature.
I was wondering about that huge lot as well. Is it parking for the housing, or do they think they will need that much parking for visitors and shoppers? I would guess that this area is still in the flood plain so could be flooded without much damage, and perhaps could be developed later.
They should just leave it as grass or landscape it if it's going to flood. We don't need the oils from that parking lot going in to the river, but I know I'm preaching to the choir
I think there should be enough parking in the plinth that's not shown because it's beneath the buildings.
Comments
Tear down Dunhams and build this at that site.....it would be ten times more cost effective. This architecture is blah, at best. You guys are missing the point by talking about architecture 'style'.....that part is trivial compared to the building massing and site plan/strategy and how it relates to it's context. This rendering shows nothing of that. I would hate if Michigan avenue ends up looking (but more importantly, feeling) this generic. I'm very curious what makes you all think this is an acceptable use of our region's MOST prime real estate. This is aiming so low that it pains me. This doesn't look any different from Eastwood development.....it's a lifeless manifestion of market forces....it exists at a thousand other semi-urban locations across the country.....it contributes very little to a healthy or communal or exciting lifestyle. It's soulless. Is Lansing soulless??
btw, don't count on an architect's website for status updates on a project, this looks to me more like a promotional tool for their company. That said, they seem like a pretty good firm and I do take some comfort that out-of-town designers are involved.
This whole plinth thing is so crazy to to me. It seems like such a stooopid thing to do to build so heavy-handedly on floodplain land that (perhaps it may be artificial, from the golf course construction) but the gentle topography is looks, feels and performs like our original midwestern landscape pre-development. And we wanna put this fat, gaudy, money-making machine on top of it......and ruin it, permanently. This is way worse, and way more short-sighted than the Scotts woods pipe thing. There is so much other land to build on in the immediate vacinity.
I'm a landscape architect. This is one of the stupidest development proposals I've ever come across. I'm very disappointed by our region and the lack of dialogue or concern regarding this project. I grew up 5-min bike ride from here. Those woods, that land is mine. It sucks that this is being planned in my backyard.
I'm not going to defend the architecture or the last site plan they released, this project is subpar on both counts. It looks like the architecture will be very similar throughout the project and the whole thing will essentially be three large buildings on the plinth, though it sounds like some things may have changed. That being said this is definitely difficult land to build on, a plinth or ground floor parking are probably the only solutions and given those options I'd prefer the plinth as it allows ground floor retail. To me the highlight here is the park and the development of the Michigan Ave frontage. I wish there was more height along Michigan Ave and I wish that the development as a whole looked more like a real urban neighborhood/commercial district but as long as they don't make any more changes for the worse I'll take it.
I don't think it's a good gamble to hold out for something better to come along for this property, the wait could be forever and the failure of this development would be negative for the Frandor area. I don't think we need or should keep the whole thing as a park either, there's plenty of natural area here already. Starting across the river from this property there's a tract of undeveloped land, including Crego Park and Fenner, stretching to Forest road, only broken up by the freeway and the EL sewage plant.
Of course, I would like a much better design for this project. I was reacting to the drawings presented. The reality of the situation is something will be built on the former golf course. Why they ever started this whole development is another topic that seems to be beside the point now. Could it all be stopped and have the site remain parkland? That may very well happen as no shovels have hit the ground yet and if something fouls up the financing. IMO, building the whole thing above the flood plan is rather innovative. In the past developments would just bury the stream or drain and cover it with cement as they did for Frandor and the other malls, so to me, this plan is a sign of progress. I think it would be really awful to see this project fail.
The Lansing Brownfield Redevelopment Authority approved the project, today. Here is the new site plan I was talking about. They moved more buildings onto the plinth, and all but the hotels have been rearranged on the site. The senior village is no longer fronting Michigan at the corner from what I've heard.
https://twitter.com/lansingmichigan/status/1098245181252481025
I was wondering about the parking on the east end that was exchanged for moving the student housing to the plinth, but now I realize it's parking for the park. I love the park.
From the LSJ:
More:
Remediation work for the plinth starts this summer.
I'm not thrilled with the massive parking lot where the student housing was and I don't like that they removed the north/south stream that ran through the project, but other than that I see some positive changes from the last site plan. I like that the buildings have gotten taller and I like the smaller building south of the senior housing. I still don't like the architecture and I like the uniformity even less, it'll be interesting to see more detailed renderings.
Between the large lot at the east end and the lot in the middle, this site plan is leaving a lot of room for future development, hopefully things go well enough to see it happen.
This is good news that I think says this thing is going to be built. I also wish the design would be bolder more urban. I hope it does not end up looking like an office park, I do think it will be animated with more people than an office park as a lot of people will be living there and visiting hopefully. A good design for the gateway to Michigan Ave that welcomes everyone, not just the people who live there will be very important. I will want to feel like I am visiting a neighborhood and a city park. I don't feel welcome to walk around the green spaces in most developments so this will have to be different to be successful and attract visitors.
That parking lot on the east side should really be about 1/4 of the size. It's only going to be full on football game days. They could probably remove it altogether honestly. Look at the size of the lot near the lake on the other side of the back drive. For a lot that is only close to the park/other properties, and knowing how little car-drivers are willing to walk, this lot will not get much use unless there is a main draw that will pull people there for events or a big park feature.
I was wondering about that huge lot as well. Is it parking for the housing, or do they think they will need that much parking for visitors and shoppers? I would guess that this area is still in the flood plain so could be flooded without much damage, and perhaps could be developed later.
They should just leave it as grass or landscape it if it's going to flood. We don't need the oils from that parking lot going in to the river, but I know I'm preaching to the choir
I think there should be enough parking in the plinth that's not shown because it's beneath the buildings.