"I'm getting a bad feeling that there are some employees of the developer, here, trying to gin up support (support that is already there, anyway) with fear-mongering."
I'm guessing that's at least in part directed at me. I'll come right out and say I am a microbiologist (micro) at Emergent BioSolutions and don't work for Gillespie.
And honestly, I don't think that this project is a fair one to use as a "litmus test" for reception to development. Regardless of which side somone is on, being that the City Market is involved there's no way to say that there isn't some controversy beyond a normal development project. If the Capitol Club fell through that would be a more fair project to consider. But regardless of if I or anyone thinks this is a good project for a litmus test, from what I've heard other developers are looking to this project as I said. Maybe it is Gillespie people spreading that word around without any basis, I can't for sure say that isn't the case, but it was stated by the head of LEAP last night at the council meeting as well.
I dont think that the future of Lansing is hanging in the balance, although there is another project that is... The amphlitheater project that is to be used with the proceeds from the sale of the land to Gillespe. Unfortunately this is a bystander, and as one that is in support of the arts, (Most major cities that we would love to emulate have some sort of outdoor entertainment arena) I feel as though we are losing alot if this doesnt pass. The funny thing to me is that, if there is a new Market, I would assume that the folks that are decidedly against it would most likely be the first and biggest supporters of the tenants in the new Market (although I dont know if they realize that yet).
Its all mute because the council has to soeak on behalf of the residents and this is completely in the air. I just wish they would remember that by nixing this deal, they would also be nixing the proposed amphlitheater, which is also a huge component to the revival of the Capital City.
Yeah, the market place development can do a lot for the Cedar Larch corridor even by itself. If the Market Place development were to go through and BallPark North not to, you would still see property values rise for the land surrounding the project, making it more attractive for businesses to move in.
Lmich, I think your underestimating the importance of this project. If it is voted down it dooms Market Place, Ballpark North, the Ampitheater and it could also doom City Center Studios. That altogether screws the Stadium District's progress up. The reason I'm so concerned is that Lansing can't afford to lose any momentum. I really would like to stay in Lansing, I want it to become a city that I actually want to live in, but if it doesn't I'll be on my way to Chicago.
Thanks for posting the Council members' email addresses. I'm not in the habit getting too involved in this type of local politics, but I have sent them a strong note of support for this project. Hopefully my involvement with downtown business will carry an extra ounce of weight, but regardless, I would have always wondered if I hadn't said something! Now I guess we just have to wait.
For my opinion, I also think that this is a terribly important vote that could have a devastating domino effect if it is not passed.
The Ampitheater has no funding, unless someone knows something I don't. The mayor's initial idea was to use proceeds from the sale of the city market to build the stage on the other side of the river. But that (quietly) changed when the proposal shifted responsibility to build the market from Gillespie to the city. So the $1.6 million the city gets from selling the market site goes to building a new market, not an Ampitheater.
Just to give you all an authoritative perspective on this from the Mayor's Office, if the Market Place development agreement is not approved, you can kiss all 3 of these projects goodbye. Market Place, Ballpark North and a new City Market WILL NOT HAPPEN. And to those who have commented that this is a litmus test for other investors, you are absolutely right. The future development of downtown Lansing hangs in the balance on this vote. Speak out now if you want to see this project approved.
Randy, I wish I had a dollar for every time someone came to me with a speech along the lines of “The future development of downtown ______ hangs in the balance on this vote.” I’d be able to give Trump a run for his money. There is no doubt that it would be a terrible setback to recent progress if the City Council were to vote in opposition to the land deal… development proposals would need to be scaled back or redesigned, but I do not believe for one moment that the future development of downtown Lansing hangs in the balance with this single vote. Yes it is an important vote, but you’re being over dramatic. Developers and their supporters can be almost theatrical if something doesn’t go exactly how it they hoped. Downtowns/urban cores are the place to be and Lansing is one of the few stable places in Michigan. Besides, this isn’t the only redevelopment proposal for downtown Lansing. Bottom line, if there is money to be made then development will happen.
Now before ya’ll break out the angry mob with pitch forks, know that I am in complete support of this project and the work that Gillespie has been proposing. Everyone just needs to have a cool head about development. Having said that, I would hope each person who supports this project calls their councilmember and points out how the project with impact Lansing for the better…. not just the “end of life as we know it” scenarios.
This has become a lively topic and it’s interesting to hear everyone’s comments.
I respect both LMich and TEXigander's feeling about being over dramatic (although I am slightly offended to be accused of working for Gillespie since I've been on this forum for a while, am not a troll, and post on lots almost all of the topics).
However, to be frank, I haven't grown up in Lansing, I have no ties to the area except I got a good job offer and based on the potential for growth I decided it was worth moving here as opposed to Chicago where my best friend lives. If this gets voted down, I'm not going to get out of my lease and move Tuesday morning, but if I see this project, Ballpark North, City Center (and Kalamazoo Gateway seems to have slowed considerably), I will be gone within a year or two at the most. I hate to be a fair weather fan, but I didn't move here as a charity action, I think there's real potentiall, but realistically I have no ties to the area and at this point in my life I'm looking to be in a growing urban area. In 5-10 years I'll probably have a family and will not have the option to live in a downtown like Chicago, so I'm not willing to stick around for 10 years to see things finally pick up here. I only have a couple years to live in a loft above a bar, right in the middle of things and if I don't see Lansing developing then this isn't for me.
If that's dramatic, so be it, but it's my life, and at least I'm not sitting around just complaining about it: I'm writing council members, giving up 4 hours to sit through a council meeting to speak, etc.
Like micro, I hope none of that "employees of the developer" feeling was aimed at me, Lmich, as I am in no way affiliated with Gillespie. And perhaps you're right, that there has been a flair towards the dramatics on this thread. However, when I ended my last post talking about "just a building"/future, what I meant was that the people that are for keeping the market are only looking at what the current physical building means to them; be that in terms of size, history, or just plain old not needing replacement. When I said future I wasn't saying that the whole city is depending on this to go through or else, but rather that the implications of whether it would or not have a greater impact than just keeping or replacing one old building. Everyone knows that most people here are in support of this development. But unlike much of the public and some of the people against this development we also realize the importance of issues like population density, a thriving urban core, walking distance, further supporting the creation of a new district, market subsidies and energy efficiencies, supporting local developers who take risks, new housing, leverage, etc. And while it is true that this project has more to do with city property and land than some other developments, I have no doubt that it would impact the future considerations of all developers, let alone the Gillespie's. I understand what TEXigander is saying too but that doesn't mean that this project isn't important, especially to people such as micro and others in similar situations. The city has a hard enough time trying to keep its current residents, let alone trying to gain new ones. There has to be incentives and belief in future development and potential growth; let alone kinetic growth that people can actually see. I'm not trying to sell anyone here on the idea, I just feel that if this doesn't go through, then things may slow down and that it is pretty important, and I know I'm not alone in this feeling. And while "if there is money to be made then development will happen," like gravity momentum needs to be built. As you all know, businesses do attract more business, and developments attract more development. Sorry for the ranting...
Comments
I'm guessing that's at least in part directed at me. I'll come right out and say I am a microbiologist (micro) at Emergent BioSolutions and don't work for Gillespie.
And honestly, I don't think that this project is a fair one to use as a "litmus test" for reception to development. Regardless of which side somone is on, being that the City Market is involved there's no way to say that there isn't some controversy beyond a normal development project. If the Capitol Club fell through that would be a more fair project to consider. But regardless of if I or anyone thinks this is a good project for a litmus test, from what I've heard other developers are looking to this project as I said. Maybe it is Gillespie people spreading that word around without any basis, I can't for sure say that isn't the case, but it was stated by the head of LEAP last night at the council meeting as well.
Its all mute because the council has to soeak on behalf of the residents and this is completely in the air. I just wish they would remember that by nixing this deal, they would also be nixing the proposed amphlitheater, which is also a huge component to the revival of the Capital City.
Thanks for posting the Council members' email addresses. I'm not in the habit getting too involved in this type of local politics, but I have sent them a strong note of support for this project. Hopefully my involvement with downtown business will carry an extra ounce of weight, but regardless, I would have always wondered if I hadn't said something! Now I guess we just have to wait.
For my opinion, I also think that this is a terribly important vote that could have a devastating domino effect if it is not passed.
Now before ya’ll break out the angry mob with pitch forks, know that I am in complete support of this project and the work that Gillespie has been proposing. Everyone just needs to have a cool head about development. Having said that, I would hope each person who supports this project calls their councilmember and points out how the project with impact Lansing for the better…. not just the “end of life as we know it” scenarios.
This has become a lively topic and it’s interesting to hear everyone’s comments.
However, to be frank, I haven't grown up in Lansing, I have no ties to the area except I got a good job offer and based on the potential for growth I decided it was worth moving here as opposed to Chicago where my best friend lives. If this gets voted down, I'm not going to get out of my lease and move Tuesday morning, but if I see this project, Ballpark North, City Center (and Kalamazoo Gateway seems to have slowed considerably), I will be gone within a year or two at the most. I hate to be a fair weather fan, but I didn't move here as a charity action, I think there's real potentiall, but realistically I have no ties to the area and at this point in my life I'm looking to be in a growing urban area. In 5-10 years I'll probably have a family and will not have the option to live in a downtown like Chicago, so I'm not willing to stick around for 10 years to see things finally pick up here. I only have a couple years to live in a loft above a bar, right in the middle of things and if I don't see Lansing developing then this isn't for me.
If that's dramatic, so be it, but it's my life, and at least I'm not sitting around just complaining about it: I'm writing council members, giving up 4 hours to sit through a council meeting to speak, etc.