Randy, I wish I had a dollar for every time someone came to me with a speech along the lines of “The future development of downtown ______ hangs in the balance on this vote.” I’d be able to give Trump a run for his money. There is no doubt that it would be a terrible setback to recent progress if the City Council were to vote in opposition to the land deal… development proposals would need to be scaled back or redesigned, but I do not believe for one moment that the future development of downtown Lansing hangs in the balance with this single vote. Yes it is an important vote, but you’re being over dramatic. Developers and their supporters can be almost theatrical if something doesn’t go exactly how it they hoped. Downtowns/urban cores are the place to be and Lansing is one of the few stable places in Michigan. Besides, this isn’t the only redevelopment proposal for downtown Lansing. Bottom line, if there is money to be made then development will happen.
Now before ya’ll break out the angry mob with pitch forks, know that I am in complete support of this project and the work that Gillespie has been proposing. Everyone just needs to have a cool head about development. Having said that, I would hope each person who supports this project calls their councilmember and points out how the project with impact Lansing for the better…. not just the “end of life as we know it” scenarios.
This has become a lively topic and it’s interesting to hear everyone’s comments.
TEX, go read my post, above. You're not the first to call for the end of the over-dramatics. BTW, I'm also in full support of this project, and just about everything else planned for the central city if I even need to add that.
I respect both LMich and TEXigander's feeling about being over dramatic (although I am slightly offended to be accused of working for Gillespie since I've been on this forum for a while, am not a troll, and post on lots almost all of the topics).
However, to be frank, I haven't grown up in Lansing, I have no ties to the area except I got a good job offer and based on the potential for growth I decided it was worth moving here as opposed to Chicago where my best friend lives. If this gets voted down, I'm not going to get out of my lease and move Tuesday morning, but if I see this project, Ballpark North, City Center (and Kalamazoo Gateway seems to have slowed considerably), I will be gone within a year or two at the most. I hate to be a fair weather fan, but I didn't move here as a charity action, I think there's real potentiall, but realistically I have no ties to the area and at this point in my life I'm looking to be in a growing urban area. In 5-10 years I'll probably have a family and will not have the option to live in a downtown like Chicago, so I'm not willing to stick around for 10 years to see things finally pick up here. I only have a couple years to live in a loft above a bar, right in the middle of things and if I don't see Lansing developing then this isn't for me.
If that's dramatic, so be it, but it's my life, and at least I'm not sitting around just complaining about it: I'm writing council members, giving up 4 hours to sit through a council meeting to speak, etc.
Not sure why you took personal offense, as my response was not directed at you personally, but to the replies, in general. If I quoted you in my original response, I didn't look to see who I'd quoted but was replying to the general hyperbole that downtown Lansing's future is tied directly to one project. It's not true, now, nor will that ever be true no matter how many times someone wants to say it. One person/development didn't make downtown decline, and one person/development will not make downtown an overnight success story. I appreciate, greatly, everything Mr. Gillespie has done thus far and plans to do in the future, but all of this Chicken Littlism (The Sky Is Falling) IS hyperbole, and ultimately counterproductive and irresponsible to moving downtown forward.
But, now that you did make your story, known, and you call yourself a fair-weather fan, I'm not sure how truly you have Lansing's intrests in mind besides as a playground. You'd have been best to have not revealed that.
Like micro, I hope none of that "employees of the developer" feeling was aimed at me, Lmich, as I am in no way affiliated with Gillespie. And perhaps you're right, that there has been a flair towards the dramatics on this thread. However, when I ended my last post talking about "just a building"/future, what I meant was that the people that are for keeping the market are only looking at what the current physical building means to them; be that in terms of size, history, or just plain old not needing replacement. When I said future I wasn't saying that the whole city is depending on this to go through or else, but rather that the implications of whether it would or not have a greater impact than just keeping or replacing one old building. Everyone knows that most people here are in support of this development. But unlike much of the public and some of the people against this development we also realize the importance of issues like population density, a thriving urban core, walking distance, further supporting the creation of a new district, market subsidies and energy efficiencies, supporting local developers who take risks, new housing, leverage, etc. And while it is true that this project has more to do with city property and land than some other developments, I have no doubt that it would impact the future considerations of all developers, let alone the Gillespie's. I understand what TEXigander is saying too but that doesn't mean that this project isn't important, especially to people such as micro and others in similar situations. The city has a hard enough time trying to keep its current residents, let alone trying to gain new ones. There has to be incentives and belief in future development and potential growth; let alone kinetic growth that people can actually see. I'm not trying to sell anyone here on the idea, I just feel that if this doesn't go through, then things may slow down and that it is pretty important, and I know I'm not alone in this feeling. And while "if there is money to be made then development will happen," like gravity momentum needs to be built. As you all know, businesses do attract more business, and developments attract more development. Sorry for the ranting...
I'm not going to hide my reasons for living here (good job and good potential for growth) and I don't think it changes anything.
My interest in Lansing is to see it develop into a great urban community, good mass transit, walkability, good skyline for a city this size, decreased urban sprawl, good entertainment, etc. By fair-weather fan I mean I have no family here, wasn't born or raised here, so I don't have a reason to stay here except I like it and I think it provides the type of community I want to live in and that means I'm not going to stick it out for 10-15 years if that type of community doesn't exist. Make no mistake, this is more than a playground, I've made the commitment to live here instead of taking a job in Chicago, and that is precisely the reason I'm maybe a little over dramatic about this project. I want to see it grow and develop into something great and I think the potential for that is real based on current projects already completed. But that isn't going to happen, at least certainly not in the next 10 years, unless people make it happen.
I realize probably everyone is in favor of this project on this forum and most projects on the horizon, as I ended my earlier post saying I know I'm preaching to the choir; however, sometimes the choir has to do more than just sing to get things accomplished, and that's my only point.
Rant on, Binto, rant on! It makes the discussion boards all that more interesting. If we all agreed 100% of the time with one another’s opinions what a boring read it would be. Without a doubt, this IS an important issue. My concern is people may talk themselves into believing that this deal is THE make or break decision for Downtown Lansing’s future. We’ve come a long ways over the last decade; even more so in the last year. I wouldn’t want to see our spirits broken should Council not support this one development proposal, albeit a significant proposal. Council will do whatever it is that council wants to do… that’s the nature of politics. Let’s all hope they make the best choice for Lansing. If they don’t, then you know what you’ve got to do… VOTE!! (as in vote 'em out!)
It was a hard call, but the job here, plus some small perks here taken together made the decision. But I have to admit that when visiting my friend, who works on Wacker Drive (a block or two from Sears Tower and his office can be seen in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight), I get a tiny bit jealous. But, he could never afford the equivalent of my loft in downtown Chitown :) so that kinda eases it.
And I guess alot of my energy has been wrongly presented (on my part) as focused on the project failing and the possible implications that come with that; as opposed to alot of my passion on this is actually derived from being really excited to see that area-BallPark North and Market Place in conjunction with AF-go up. I think it's going to make a really big positive impact on the area so I really want it to happen.
I realize a no-vote on this isn't going to stop every development, but it will slow things, and being that I'm only going to be a "young professional" for so long, and I want to spend these years in an urban area like what I believe Lansing will be in 5 years if these projects go through, I'm feeling a bit more of a time-crunch and maybe desperation than others which is making me a little more dramatic...but hey, if my drama is adding to the fun here, I'm happy to be apart.
*Seriously though, we don't know eachother here so if I do get annoying and I need to shut up, don't hold back*
With all due respect, Texigander, you vastly underestimate the fragility of the economic momentum we've managed to get rolling in our downtown in the last two years. In this economy, the notion that if this project fails another will be along shortly to take its place is far from certain and even improbable in the short term. Other than Gillespie and a handful of other highly motivated local investors who believe in making things happen here, there are no other developers waiting in the wings and champing at the bit to drop $50 or $100 million into new projects in Lansing, Michigan. The view from Texas may look a bit different, but from here in Lansing, the failure of this project, combined with some of the behind-the-scenes City Council political machinations (of which you and LMich are evidently unaware), could easily conspire to doom downtown development well into the next decade. For those of us who are busting our tails trying to rev up this city, we're not willing to adopt your laid back attitude that development will come around when it gets around. Sorry, but that's not good enough for us or for Lansing. If that's too theatrical or overly dramatic for your taste, so be it.
Comments
Now before ya’ll break out the angry mob with pitch forks, know that I am in complete support of this project and the work that Gillespie has been proposing. Everyone just needs to have a cool head about development. Having said that, I would hope each person who supports this project calls their councilmember and points out how the project with impact Lansing for the better…. not just the “end of life as we know it” scenarios.
This has become a lively topic and it’s interesting to hear everyone’s comments.
However, to be frank, I haven't grown up in Lansing, I have no ties to the area except I got a good job offer and based on the potential for growth I decided it was worth moving here as opposed to Chicago where my best friend lives. If this gets voted down, I'm not going to get out of my lease and move Tuesday morning, but if I see this project, Ballpark North, City Center (and Kalamazoo Gateway seems to have slowed considerably), I will be gone within a year or two at the most. I hate to be a fair weather fan, but I didn't move here as a charity action, I think there's real potentiall, but realistically I have no ties to the area and at this point in my life I'm looking to be in a growing urban area. In 5-10 years I'll probably have a family and will not have the option to live in a downtown like Chicago, so I'm not willing to stick around for 10 years to see things finally pick up here. I only have a couple years to live in a loft above a bar, right in the middle of things and if I don't see Lansing developing then this isn't for me.
If that's dramatic, so be it, but it's my life, and at least I'm not sitting around just complaining about it: I'm writing council members, giving up 4 hours to sit through a council meeting to speak, etc.
Not sure why you took personal offense, as my response was not directed at you personally, but to the replies, in general. If I quoted you in my original response, I didn't look to see who I'd quoted but was replying to the general hyperbole that downtown Lansing's future is tied directly to one project. It's not true, now, nor will that ever be true no matter how many times someone wants to say it. One person/development didn't make downtown decline, and one person/development will not make downtown an overnight success story. I appreciate, greatly, everything Mr. Gillespie has done thus far and plans to do in the future, but all of this Chicken Littlism (The Sky Is Falling) IS hyperbole, and ultimately counterproductive and irresponsible to moving downtown forward.
But, now that you did make your story, known, and you call yourself a fair-weather fan, I'm not sure how truly you have Lansing's intrests in mind besides as a playground. You'd have been best to have not revealed that.
My interest in Lansing is to see it develop into a great urban community, good mass transit, walkability, good skyline for a city this size, decreased urban sprawl, good entertainment, etc. By fair-weather fan I mean I have no family here, wasn't born or raised here, so I don't have a reason to stay here except I like it and I think it provides the type of community I want to live in and that means I'm not going to stick it out for 10-15 years if that type of community doesn't exist. Make no mistake, this is more than a playground, I've made the commitment to live here instead of taking a job in Chicago, and that is precisely the reason I'm maybe a little over dramatic about this project. I want to see it grow and develop into something great and I think the potential for that is real based on current projects already completed. But that isn't going to happen, at least certainly not in the next 10 years, unless people make it happen.
I realize probably everyone is in favor of this project on this forum and most projects on the horizon, as I ended my earlier post saying I know I'm preaching to the choir; however, sometimes the choir has to do more than just sing to get things accomplished, and that's my only point.
Lansing does have a lot of potential and I must admit that I miss the area. It will always be home.
And I guess alot of my energy has been wrongly presented (on my part) as focused on the project failing and the possible implications that come with that; as opposed to alot of my passion on this is actually derived from being really excited to see that area-BallPark North and Market Place in conjunction with AF-go up. I think it's going to make a really big positive impact on the area so I really want it to happen.
I realize a no-vote on this isn't going to stop every development, but it will slow things, and being that I'm only going to be a "young professional" for so long, and I want to spend these years in an urban area like what I believe Lansing will be in 5 years if these projects go through, I'm feeling a bit more of a time-crunch and maybe desperation than others which is making me a little more dramatic...but hey, if my drama is adding to the fun here, I'm happy to be apart.
*Seriously though, we don't know eachother here so if I do get annoying and I need to shut up, don't hold back*