This development is valuable for EL in many ways. It brings energy by changing the landscape, possibly brings a grocery store downtown, includes age-restricted housing and adds downtown parking.
In practical terms, this development should bring more tax revenue for the city as a consequence of more business activity and residents. But it also creates opportunities for future growth by changing perceptions of EL.
So, yes, the city must be diligent but please don't micromanage this project.
Do you think that time will ever come? Are there cities in Michigan where developments are being built without some sort of tax abatement, or other government subsidies? If so than planners, and government here should find out how they are doing it.
I think a lot of it depends on demand, the finances of the municipality, and the red tape that it takes to get the subsidies.
East Lansing is getting to the point where it may not have the finances to support subsidies for both the Center City District as well as the Park District. The City of Lansing's bond rating is low enough that Red Cedar is asking Ingham County for the bond.
Developers in East Lansing have dealt with so much red tape to get subsidies that I'm surprised to see them still trying. I hope that the Core Campus development will not ask for subsidies.
I think the demand is building, but it's not there yet to get rents high enough that extra financing won't be necessary. Developers in Detroit often talked about the magic $2/sqft rent that is required before projects can self-finance. With rents less than $2/sqft, banks see too much risk in lending and want to spread out the risk and pass some of it on to the municipality.
The rents for 565 Building range from $2.008/sqft for 1 bed 1 bath, to $2.605 for 3 bed 2 bath premium units. The rents for Skyvue range from $1.938 for 1 bed 1 bath, $2.152 for 4 bed 4 bath units. If both of these buildings are fully leased and demand still pushes the rates higher, then I think we may start to see more developments get built without government subsidies.
I really do not have a problem with governments helping to get these project built. It often seems like here in Lansing we see these grand plans, and once the local government get a hold of it we end up with something less grand. I also find it kind of ironic that these developers and C.of C. types are the ones who most want government out of their businesses and life's, but seem to be right up front when it comes to a hand out from the government.
More moves that makes this project look imminent: Noodles & Company is moving from their current location mid-block on Grand River to the corner at Abbott in anticipation of the project.
The picture at East Lansing Info shows it right in the middle:
Speaking of Noodles & Company, I was going to try the one in East Lansing with family a week or two ago. I usually go to the one in Okemos. Anyway, tried to get into the parking lot and couldn't even get in, so we just went out to the one in Okemos. I kind of knew better but thought I'd try. lol
Couldn't get in because the parking lot was full or something else? I didn't think the lot filled up that often. If you still want to try it, the ramp on the MSU side of Grand River is free after 6pm I think, and has plenty of parking.
Yes, last time I was there it was free on the evenings and weekends, with the exception of the night before a home football game and the day of the home football games.
This is the big reason why the City didn't want MSU to build their parking ramp on Grand River. They were upset that MSU would not charge on evenings and weekends, and essentially compete with the paid ramps that EL owns. It's also why there is no left-turn in to the ramp from westbound Grand River, because the City had a say and wanted to restrict how many people could get to the ramp. If the city could have really had their way they wouldn't have even put an entrance along Grand River, but MSU said that they would have fought to get the entrance on Grand River.
Comments
This development is valuable for EL in many ways. It brings energy by changing the landscape, possibly brings a grocery store downtown, includes age-restricted housing and adds downtown parking.
In practical terms, this development should bring more tax revenue for the city as a consequence of more business activity and residents. But it also creates opportunities for future growth by changing perceptions of EL.
So, yes, the city must be diligent but please don't micromanage this project.
Do you think that time will ever come? Are there cities in Michigan where developments are being built without some sort of tax abatement, or other government subsidies? If so than planners, and government here should find out how they are doing it.
I think a lot of it depends on demand, the finances of the municipality, and the red tape that it takes to get the subsidies.
East Lansing is getting to the point where it may not have the finances to support subsidies for both the Center City District as well as the Park District. The City of Lansing's bond rating is low enough that Red Cedar is asking Ingham County for the bond.
Developers in East Lansing have dealt with so much red tape to get subsidies that I'm surprised to see them still trying. I hope that the Core Campus development will not ask for subsidies.
I think the demand is building, but it's not there yet to get rents high enough that extra financing won't be necessary. Developers in Detroit often talked about the magic $2/sqft rent that is required before projects can self-finance. With rents less than $2/sqft, banks see too much risk in lending and want to spread out the risk and pass some of it on to the municipality.
The rents for 565 Building range from $2.008/sqft for 1 bed 1 bath, to $2.605 for 3 bed 2 bath premium units. The rents for Skyvue range from $1.938 for 1 bed 1 bath, $2.152 for 4 bed 4 bath units. If both of these buildings are fully leased and demand still pushes the rates higher, then I think we may start to see more developments get built without government subsidies.
I really do not have a problem with governments helping to get these project built. It often seems like here in Lansing we see these grand plans, and once the local government get a hold of it we end up with something less grand. I also find it kind of ironic that these developers and C.of C. types are the ones who most want government out of their businesses and life's, but seem to be right up front when it comes to a hand out from the government.
More moves that makes this project look imminent: Noodles & Company is moving from their current location mid-block on Grand River to the corner at Abbott in anticipation of the project.
The picture at East Lansing Info shows it right in the middle:
Yes, definitely getting the ducks in a row. Sundance is moving next to BW3 along Albert.
Speaking of Noodles & Company, I was going to try the one in East Lansing with family a week or two ago. I usually go to the one in Okemos. Anyway, tried to get into the parking lot and couldn't even get in, so we just went out to the one in Okemos. I kind of knew better but thought I'd try. lol
Couldn't get in because the parking lot was full or something else? I didn't think the lot filled up that often. If you still want to try it, the ramp on the MSU side of Grand River is free after 6pm I think, and has plenty of parking.
I did not know about the free parking at the MSU ramp. Is it also free on weekend?
Yes, last time I was there it was free on the evenings and weekends, with the exception of the night before a home football game and the day of the home football games.
This is the big reason why the City didn't want MSU to build their parking ramp on Grand River. They were upset that MSU would not charge on evenings and weekends, and essentially compete with the paid ramps that EL owns. It's also why there is no left-turn in to the ramp from westbound Grand River, because the City had a say and wanted to restrict how many people could get to the ramp. If the city could have really had their way they wouldn't have even put an entrance along Grand River, but MSU said that they would have fought to get the entrance on Grand River.