I hope this goes through still, just for the simple fact that we definitely don't need more properties in limbo along that stretch of Grand River.
That said, I was a little sad about the location. If the other development at Abbot and Grand River goes through too, there won't be too many "old school" downtown buildings left in EL. I feel like the best downtowns have a healthy mix of old and new buildings.
I still wouldn't object to this plan for those reasons, but in a perfect world, I'd have preferred this to be on the north side of Albert somewhere, or even north up Abbot a bit. It could've even given EL an excuse to build a new city hall, selling it to the public as the way to make way for a big private investment that includes a downtown Target.
Of course I'm sure the developers wanted some frontage right across the university, and might've balked at any location that didn't include that. And I'm happy to see infill on the parking lot off of Abbot. You win some, you lose some.
It's not the end of the world, to be sure. However, the way I look at it is that Greater Lansing only has so many historic urban commercial buildings, even if some of those buildings were quite standard in design.
Meanwhile, think about how many old houses and parking lots are in this region. There are more of those than you can shake a stick at it.
So what would we rather lose? That's how I look at it. To go back to one of the founding "mothers" of the modern urban movement, Jane Jacobs... a city's commercial and industrial building stock should represent a rich mix of eras. Simply because each era provided different aesthetics and types of workspaces, and you want to provide the next generation of business owners with all of those options if possible. It breeds diversity. As we know from experience, new buildings tend to attract chains and more formulaic business models that have higher odds of sustainable returns.
Also, I don't see why downtown EL can't continue to expand north of Grand River. Nothing is locking it into a two block north-south area besides a lack of will or interest.
I do like this project at least on paper. I am not a big fan of knocking down old buildings, but E.L. really does not feel like a cozy historical district downtown. There are already "tall" buildings and parking ramps along Albert giving the street a dark and cold feeling as soon as the sun passes to the west, so I am not really sure what it is they are trying to preserve. It is not very nice on the Grand River Ave. side either with all the traffic roaring by, so yes do something else and make it first class.
With Valley Court Park, I do see why residents want to keep the basketball court and volleyball courts (I believe those are there). And they'd complain if you put taller buildings closer the residential area, so it's all got to go on Grand River and Albert.
But I think if you really want to make EL an urban destination you've got to expand north. Nobody likes the downtown getting confined to an extremely long east-west strip. It increases the demand for close parking to unreasonable levels for an urban area.
Having Target onboard makes the project seem much more realistic, and it gives people something tangential to hold on to. Without the project, I don't see Target adding another location in the area.
I lived in a very small town for a long time, they had a town meeting every year and anyone from town could speak, offer ideas, and criticisms [a lot of the latter] and I swear even with all those voices they got big things done. They agreed on and built a new sewer system, rebuilt and repaved the main street, rebuilt the town wharf,installed all new LED street lighting, and reorganized and rebuilt the town's school system among other projects . This was all in the last 5 or 6 years and they are now about to build a new police station. Why can't just few people come to a common view in East Lansing, and agree on a vision for the the kind of downtown they want have. I think people with too much individual power keep putting their own personal taste ahead of what would be best for the city as a whole. What do they have to point to, as evidence that the city "could not support" two large developments downtown?
I do like the look of this design, I think this is the Albert Street side, it looks more like the brick faced buildings in the area.They have described it as a two ten story buildings on the radio news, and there looks to be another building next to the apartment"?"building. It looks like it fits in there better than the last depiction. I know some people in E.L. will never be happy with anything other a two story building so I hope they will just get on with this project.
Comments
I hope this goes through still, just for the simple fact that we definitely don't need more properties in limbo along that stretch of Grand River.
That said, I was a little sad about the location. If the other development at Abbot and Grand River goes through too, there won't be too many "old school" downtown buildings left in EL. I feel like the best downtowns have a healthy mix of old and new buildings.
I still wouldn't object to this plan for those reasons, but in a perfect world, I'd have preferred this to be on the north side of Albert somewhere, or even north up Abbot a bit. It could've even given EL an excuse to build a new city hall, selling it to the public as the way to make way for a big private investment that includes a downtown Target.
Of course I'm sure the developers wanted some frontage right across the university, and might've balked at any location that didn't include that. And I'm happy to see infill on the parking lot off of Abbot. You win some, you lose some.
It's not the end of the world, to be sure. However, the way I look at it is that Greater Lansing only has so many historic urban commercial buildings, even if some of those buildings were quite standard in design.
Meanwhile, think about how many old houses and parking lots are in this region. There are more of those than you can shake a stick at it.
So what would we rather lose? That's how I look at it. To go back to one of the founding "mothers" of the modern urban movement, Jane Jacobs... a city's commercial and industrial building stock should represent a rich mix of eras. Simply because each era provided different aesthetics and types of workspaces, and you want to provide the next generation of business owners with all of those options if possible. It breeds diversity. As we know from experience, new buildings tend to attract chains and more formulaic business models that have higher odds of sustainable returns.
Also, I don't see why downtown EL can't continue to expand north of Grand River. Nothing is locking it into a two block north-south area besides a lack of will or interest.
I do like this project at least on paper. I am not a big fan of knocking down old buildings, but E.L. really does not feel like a cozy historical district downtown. There are already "tall" buildings and parking ramps along Albert giving the street a dark and cold feeling as soon as the sun passes to the west, so I am not really sure what it is they are trying to preserve. It is not very nice on the Grand River Ave. side either with all the traffic roaring by, so yes do something else and make it first class.
But I think if you really want to make EL an urban destination you've got to expand north. Nobody likes the downtown getting confined to an extremely long east-west strip. It increases the demand for close parking to unreasonable levels for an urban area.
What happens to Target if they kill this? Does Target seemingly onboard push the needle at all?
Having Target onboard makes the project seem much more realistic, and it gives people something tangential to hold on to. Without the project, I don't see Target adding another location in the area.
So this is still on despite the most recent vote?
I lived in a very small town for a long time, they had a town meeting every year and anyone from town could speak, offer ideas, and criticisms [a lot of the latter] and I swear even with all those voices they got big things done. They agreed on and built a new sewer system, rebuilt and repaved the main street, rebuilt the town wharf,installed all new LED street lighting, and reorganized and rebuilt the town's school system among other projects . This was all in the last 5 or 6 years and they are now about to build a new police station. Why can't just few people come to a common view in East Lansing, and agree on a vision for the the kind of downtown they want have. I think people with too much individual power keep putting their own personal taste ahead of what would be best for the city as a whole. What do they have to point to, as evidence that the city "could not support" two large developments downtown?
I do like the look of this design, I think this is the Albert Street side, it looks more like the brick faced buildings in the area.They have described it as a two ten story buildings on the radio news, and there looks to be another building next to the apartment"?"building. It looks like it fits in there better than the last depiction. I know some people in E.L. will never be happy with anything other a two story building so I hope they will just get on with this project.