Bless his heart, he's actually going to try to get this through council. lol Kind of disappointed to hear Andy not taking a firm stance against trying this in the current council. The literal least I expect is for this not to be done with Virg on his way out the door, which looks super suspicious.
BTW, just noticed tonight they put the LED lights along Grand River/Oakland (might have continued on the other side of the river, but didn't go that far) on the east side. It is crazy how much more they light up the street around Groesbeck, which use to be an eerily dark stretch. Still not a huge fan of them in the densest neighborhoods, as the light is too harsh and you don't need them anyway since the regular sodium lamps are usually close enough to properly illuminate the sidewalks. But in more suburban areas where street lamps are placed further apart, they really do make you feel more safe as both a pedestrian and driver.
I am very happy they are choosing to keep the current City Hall building. It is going to be so cool to see that corner come alive. I agree that the Mid-Century modern look should be a part of the rooms and public spaces. It will be interesting to see what they are planning for the State Journal building.
I agree that LED lights are good for lighting streets more brightly, I can see some of them on Elm Street, what I like about them is there is no light going up, over the lamp. When it was snowing the other night it was totally black above the lights, below was a white out snow falling of the snow falling onto the street. They really pick up the white of the snow.
The LSJ pointed out that the plans for the new city hall do not include the Courts or Police department. I guess they would like to build a separate facility near the Court building on Kalamazoo. I hope this is not the first wrench being thrown into this plan to slow it down to never happening.
No one needs to forget that this has to go through the city council, anyway. The news keeps reporting on this as if it's a done deal. It's not, thank god. It's not even a little bit of a surprise to me that Virg would be in such a rush that the plan doesn't even include the police department or court. And the response is basically "well, we'll deal with that after that fact." A move this big is something where you spend the time to nail down all of the details. Hell, before you know it the city hall will end up in barn like the City Market because Virg was in a rush to hand over some land to a developer.
The entire focus of this particular plan it to get a hotel built, which is crazy when it involves city hall. ANY plan that involves city hall needs city hall as the focus; the city needs to at least be made whole in any city hall move. These two things (want for another downtown hotel, a the possibility of a new city hall) need to be seperated, otherwise the city is going to get short shrift on any deal that includes an outside developer. An outside developer care a thing about what happens to the city government in a deal like this beyond what it's literally obligated on paper to do; and Virg is not going to negotiate a agreement that is the most agreeable to a developer because that's just who he is. Neither party in this situation has the city's best interest in mind, which is why something this serious should be rejected outright. No on should trust this guy anymore to negotiate something which involves a major move by the city government or agency.
This whole process needs to be scrapped, and then if Andy wants to start it over, again, fine. But this current process - as expected - has been a total farce. I can't believe people are still falling for a flashy rendering. We've seen this show before. Dude put together this deal, Waverly Gold Course, and REO Transportation Museum all in his last year. There is no way he spent the needed time on this one for it to be a good one for the city.
Fool me once? Shame on you. Fool me twice, three times, four times...? A city hall and a site is a statement of how a city views itself. There are very few city halls in as prominent a position as Lansing's with a grand plaza showcasing its power. Detroit is the only other city with a city hall like our's in the state. Hotels are all over the place; you can build a hotel anywhere with any kind of architecture. A city hall shouldn't be treated as an after-thought and stuck into a quiet corner of downtown. As far as I'm concerned there are a few things any new city hall should be/include:
It should be at least as large as the current city hall. The Planning Department should have to be tucked into some city garage like it currently is. As downsized as the city government is, the current city hall, if anything, is still too large for the space.
It should be at least as grand as the current city hall. That means no tucking it into some tired corner of the city center, and it shouldn't look like some non-descript suburban office building, which is what most of the new proposal rendered the city hall to look.
I honestly couldn't care less about a new hotel at the city hall site. You want a nice location for a downtown hotel that will fill some vacant space? Put it across from the Radisson in that embarrassing surface parking lot where they could make both of themselves better. You need a Capitol view? Building one on that embarrasingly large surface lot kitty corner from the Capitol at Walnut and Allegan, or put it into the empty Farnum Building no one has bitten on.
There is no reason why the city hall site needs to be some kind of obsession.
You put it very well. I was reacting to the story as it seemed to be a done deal, and at least they were planning to use the current building. I was looking at the LSJ building just yesterday, and there really is not much to it, other than a nice sandstone facade there are very few windows and it was really just an industrial space that held the printing presses with offices up front. They would really have to go some to get that building up to a high standard. Mich is right, we should be taking a closer look at this, the mayor seems to be getting even more "mouthy" in his final days saying many off the cuff things about Lansing and the area and is pushing this for some reason. The truth is that all along I would have rather seen them keep city hall where it is, remodel, and refurbish maybe floor by floor so the whole city hall would not have to move. I think relocating the police and courts elsewhere, maybe the old YMCA building, would free up space in the current City Hall. The drawings do depict how nice the building could look if they were to remodel it.
I was enthusiastic about a new City Hall but after seeing the proposals for the City Hall site and seeing the lackluster plans for a new city hall, I've completely turned against the idea. There's really no understating how disappointing it'd be to have City Hall end up in the old LSJ building, that would be embarrassing for the city. My enthusiasm for a new City Hall was predicated on an impressive replacement and a preference for the old building to be preserved, neither of those look likely with this proposal.
Maybe it would be best to move the police department and jail out of City Hall and allow the City to take over their space. They've never really been clear about space requirements for any of the entities involved in these proposed moves so it's hard to imagine what they actually need, but I'd imagine that'd give the City plenty of room. The thought of fully renovated and restored City Hall building (remaining as City Hall) is really growing on me.
The big decision then becomes where to put the police department and city jail, and that largely depends on what the County does. They have to decide whether to expand their current complex on Kalamazoo or start fresh, possibly partnering with the City's police department and possibly incorporating the county jail, courts or other operations currently in Mason. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lake Trust site is still being considered for the police dept/sheriff/courts combo and I still like that site for a new justice complex, preferably without the county jail.
I doubt this City Hall sale will go through, I certainly hope that it doesn't. I do hope that the City considers remaining in City Hall and properly restoring it. It's obvious now that a sale of the building will mean a mediocre rehashing of the current building and a shoddy new City Hall.
The city had be slow lately on getting up Planning Board meetings - last one in the agenda and minutes section was from the August meeting. Anyway, apparently because this one included the city hall proposal the mayor placed it on file. lol What caught my eye was more information is given on the planned renovation of 735 East Hazel. Aside from residential use, the building is planned to have artist and performance studios among other uses, and the building actually has an old gym the developer wants to put back into use.
Back in the present, I believe city council approved the special land use permit for this one this week.
In yea! they repaved this street news, they finally repaved the really bad sections of Moorse River Drive by Frances Park! Just a small area was paved but it's really great to see some of these streets getting some attention. I have only been back here a couple of years and the condition of the streets has been one thing that drives me crazy, it must be such a relief to see some improvements for you guys who have had to put up with this for a lot longer than me. It would be a good goal for the new mayor to reverse the numbers from 30% good roads 70% bad roads, to 70%good 30%bad!
The most recent council planning committee agenda has the minutes for the previous agenda. It appears the council is going to be asked to purchase three parcels for the county land bank on Simken Driven (just east of the corner Holmes and Pleasant Grove) for the development of the second Beacon Soccer Field. The development will also include an adventure trail, a rain garden, a playground and some other features.
The original plan was for the county landbank to lease it to the developers of the county land bank, but I guess because the city has a better/more substantial insurance policy, the city will instead buy the land (for a small sum of around $3,500) and lease it to the developers. Apparently, though fundraising didn't start in earnest until last month they have raised most of the money for the project.
This is going to be great for the kids in that neighborhood, and just people looking for a nice park to go to. While there is quite a bit of open space in the area, there aren't any dedicated parkland immediately off the intersection.
That's good to hear about the soccer field. I haven't been down there recently but Simken was in pretty rough shape even after they tore the worst stuff down, this should do a lot to help that out.
Comments
Bless his heart, he's actually going to try to get this through council. lol Kind of disappointed to hear Andy not taking a firm stance against trying this in the current council. The literal least I expect is for this not to be done with Virg on his way out the door, which looks super suspicious.
BTW, just noticed tonight they put the LED lights along Grand River/Oakland (might have continued on the other side of the river, but didn't go that far) on the east side. It is crazy how much more they light up the street around Groesbeck, which use to be an eerily dark stretch. Still not a huge fan of them in the densest neighborhoods, as the light is too harsh and you don't need them anyway since the regular sodium lamps are usually close enough to properly illuminate the sidewalks. But in more suburban areas where street lamps are placed further apart, they really do make you feel more safe as both a pedestrian and driver.
I am very happy they are choosing to keep the current City Hall building. It is going to be so cool to see that corner come alive. I agree that the Mid-Century modern look should be a part of the rooms and public spaces. It will be interesting to see what they are planning for the State Journal building.
I agree that LED lights are good for lighting streets more brightly, I can see some of them on Elm Street, what I like about them is there is no light going up, over the lamp. When it was snowing the other night it was totally black above the lights, below was a white out snow falling of the snow falling onto the street. They really pick up the white of the snow.
The LSJ pointed out that the plans for the new city hall do not include the Courts or Police department. I guess they would like to build a separate facility near the Court building on Kalamazoo. I hope this is not the first wrench being thrown into this plan to slow it down to never happening.
No one needs to forget that this has to go through the city council, anyway. The news keeps reporting on this as if it's a done deal. It's not, thank god. It's not even a little bit of a surprise to me that Virg would be in such a rush that the plan doesn't even include the police department or court. And the response is basically "well, we'll deal with that after that fact." A move this big is something where you spend the time to nail down all of the details. Hell, before you know it the city hall will end up in barn like the City Market because Virg was in a rush to hand over some land to a developer.
The entire focus of this particular plan it to get a hotel built, which is crazy when it involves city hall. ANY plan that involves city hall needs city hall as the focus; the city needs to at least be made whole in any city hall move. These two things (want for another downtown hotel, a the possibility of a new city hall) need to be seperated, otherwise the city is going to get short shrift on any deal that includes an outside developer. An outside developer care a thing about what happens to the city government in a deal like this beyond what it's literally obligated on paper to do; and Virg is not going to negotiate a agreement that is the most agreeable to a developer because that's just who he is. Neither party in this situation has the city's best interest in mind, which is why something this serious should be rejected outright. No on should trust this guy anymore to negotiate something which involves a major move by the city government or agency.
This whole process needs to be scrapped, and then if Andy wants to start it over, again, fine. But this current process - as expected - has been a total farce. I can't believe people are still falling for a flashy rendering. We've seen this show before. Dude put together this deal, Waverly Gold Course, and REO Transportation Museum all in his last year. There is no way he spent the needed time on this one for it to be a good one for the city.
Fool me once? Shame on you. Fool me twice, three times, four times...? A city hall and a site is a statement of how a city views itself. There are very few city halls in as prominent a position as Lansing's with a grand plaza showcasing its power. Detroit is the only other city with a city hall like our's in the state. Hotels are all over the place; you can build a hotel anywhere with any kind of architecture. A city hall shouldn't be treated as an after-thought and stuck into a quiet corner of downtown. As far as I'm concerned there are a few things any new city hall should be/include:
It should be at least as large as the current city hall. The Planning Department should have to be tucked into some city garage like it currently is. As downsized as the city government is, the current city hall, if anything, is still too large for the space.
It should be at least as grand as the current city hall. That means no tucking it into some tired corner of the city center, and it shouldn't look like some non-descript suburban office building, which is what most of the new proposal rendered the city hall to look.
I honestly couldn't care less about a new hotel at the city hall site. You want a nice location for a downtown hotel that will fill some vacant space? Put it across from the Radisson in that embarrassing surface parking lot where they could make both of themselves better. You need a Capitol view? Building one on that embarrasingly large surface lot kitty corner from the Capitol at Walnut and Allegan, or put it into the empty Farnum Building no one has bitten on.
There is no reason why the city hall site needs to be some kind of obsession.
You put it very well. I was reacting to the story as it seemed to be a done deal, and at least they were planning to use the current building. I was looking at the LSJ building just yesterday, and there really is not much to it, other than a nice sandstone facade there are very few windows and it was really just an industrial space that held the printing presses with offices up front. They would really have to go some to get that building up to a high standard. Mich is right, we should be taking a closer look at this, the mayor seems to be getting even more "mouthy" in his final days saying many off the cuff things about Lansing and the area and is pushing this for some reason. The truth is that all along I would have rather seen them keep city hall where it is, remodel, and refurbish maybe floor by floor so the whole city hall would not have to move. I think relocating the police and courts elsewhere, maybe the old YMCA building, would free up space in the current City Hall. The drawings do depict how nice the building could look if they were to remodel it.
I was enthusiastic about a new City Hall but after seeing the proposals for the City Hall site and seeing the lackluster plans for a new city hall, I've completely turned against the idea. There's really no understating how disappointing it'd be to have City Hall end up in the old LSJ building, that would be embarrassing for the city. My enthusiasm for a new City Hall was predicated on an impressive replacement and a preference for the old building to be preserved, neither of those look likely with this proposal.
Maybe it would be best to move the police department and jail out of City Hall and allow the City to take over their space. They've never really been clear about space requirements for any of the entities involved in these proposed moves so it's hard to imagine what they actually need, but I'd imagine that'd give the City plenty of room. The thought of fully renovated and restored City Hall building (remaining as City Hall) is really growing on me.
The big decision then becomes where to put the police department and city jail, and that largely depends on what the County does. They have to decide whether to expand their current complex on Kalamazoo or start fresh, possibly partnering with the City's police department and possibly incorporating the county jail, courts or other operations currently in Mason. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lake Trust site is still being considered for the police dept/sheriff/courts combo and I still like that site for a new justice complex, preferably without the county jail.
I doubt this City Hall sale will go through, I certainly hope that it doesn't. I do hope that the City considers remaining in City Hall and properly restoring it. It's obvious now that a sale of the building will mean a mediocre rehashing of the current building and a shoddy new City Hall.
The city had be slow lately on getting up Planning Board meetings - last one in the agenda and minutes section was from the August meeting. Anyway, apparently because this one included the city hall proposal the mayor placed it on file. lol What caught my eye was more information is given on the planned renovation of 735 East Hazel. Aside from residential use, the building is planned to have artist and performance studios among other uses, and the building actually has an old gym the developer wants to put back into use.
Back in the present, I believe city council approved the special land use permit for this one this week.
In yea! they repaved this street news, they finally repaved the really bad sections of Moorse River Drive by Frances Park! Just a small area was paved but it's really great to see some of these streets getting some attention. I have only been back here a couple of years and the condition of the streets has been one thing that drives me crazy, it must be such a relief to see some improvements for you guys who have had to put up with this for a lot longer than me. It would be a good goal for the new mayor to reverse the numbers from 30% good roads 70% bad roads, to 70%good 30%bad!
The most recent council planning committee agenda has the minutes for the previous agenda. It appears the council is going to be asked to purchase three parcels for the county land bank on Simken Driven (just east of the corner Holmes and Pleasant Grove) for the development of the second Beacon Soccer Field. The development will also include an adventure trail, a rain garden, a playground and some other features.
The original plan was for the county landbank to lease it to the developers of the county land bank, but I guess because the city has a better/more substantial insurance policy, the city will instead buy the land (for a small sum of around $3,500) and lease it to the developers. Apparently, though fundraising didn't start in earnest until last month they have raised most of the money for the project.
This is going to be great for the kids in that neighborhood, and just people looking for a nice park to go to. While there is quite a bit of open space in the area, there aren't any dedicated parkland immediately off the intersection.
That's good to hear about the soccer field. I haven't been down there recently but Simken was in pretty rough shape even after they tore the worst stuff down, this should do a lot to help that out.