@MJ, please do not make multiple comments one after another. If you have further thoughts and you just posted you can edit your comment. I have held off from saying something but at this point it has become obnoxious.
Also, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from making judgements about other people and what their background is or what they are/aren't commenting on. Someone who works in urban planning should know that it is a process that must require input from everyone in the community.
This forum should be a constructive place for us to share news, ideas, and commentary on Lansing developments. Let's all try to keep it constructive and positive.
This is NOT urban planning, this is an online forum. Have you been to another online forum?? This is incredibly civil by comparison. But I'm starting to find all this etiquette advice/rules insulting and suffocating. It eliminates more discussion then it opens up.
And several people have now gone after me personally (assuming I'm an urban planner, or even a professional) WHILE AT THE SAME TIME telling me not to judge other people. Feels like you are just standing up for eachother....or the 'regulars'......at the expense of some hyper-opinionated and pretty-obnoxious weirdo. Well, there are more people like me out there, so grow up and start learning to DEAL with it like adults. Not by taking on some condescending moderator tone.
Thank you maybe you need to take a break. Honestly, I am have not "gone after you", and it was your comment that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, big babies etc., that while I may have misunderstood your point of view on the environmental implications of this project, I do not think to call anyone an idiot on this forum for any reason is appropriate in any way and brings unnecessary bad feelings and animosity to a quite innocent discussion of and opinions about growth in our community. Actually, it is just such posts that are childish and boring. This will be my last response to MJ on this issue. But please feel free to go on and on how you are being mistreated and misunderstood least I am accused of suffocating your voice here. I just won't be responding you.
Okay, you did misunderstand me in one way, I meant that to read "I am a big baby, but at least I'm not boring." That's called self-deprecation, for your square ass. It's used to open oneself up to insult or question, as a way of signifying that EVEN if I'm ranting about something, or speaking overly authoratively, or aggressively, or whatever....that I'm self-aware enough and humble enough to acknowledge it for what it is and hope/ask that you forgive my BS and pay attention to the more important content of what I'm saying.
Regardless, I leave you in peace. Now go in peace, to love and serve......
Are there any mentions of rain gardens or other ecological features of the latest proposal that would help prevent some of the water run-off issues that we face with Frandor today? I see the retention pond and trees throughout the parking lot, but I'm curious if there are other aspects that are designed for filtration and water runoff.
We probably won't know that until Lindemann submits his plans, or if Sabatoa could follow-up in his correspondance. There hasn't been much talk of the drain project in the media at least for a few years now, unlike Red Cedar Renaissance.
I was referring to the Red Cedar Renaissance project, not the drain project. For example, on top of the plinth it would be nice if we had some rain gardens etc.
@MJ Your multiple posts, use of all caps, condescension and overall attitude doesn't contribute anything positive to this discussion. Continue this I will become a loud voice pushing to have removed from this forum. We've went by years without dealing with these childish antics. We need more voices here so I hate to discourage anyone from posting but this has gotten out of hand.
There's a lot wrong in your last series of posts, I'll make note of what I can:
-Lindemann isn't necessarily lying about the lack of taxpayer money going to this project, as you yourself later point out this drain project will be financed through tax capture of this development and other properties within the drain district. It's sort of true this is money that would otherwise be going elsewhere though.
-As others have pointed out he also didn't say anything about a 25' waterfall, he said there would be 25 waterfalls. I don't expect any of these waterfalls to be anything noteworthy in and of itself.
-There's plenty of room to make the sledding hill in Ranney Park taller. The slope doesn't quite go to the edge of the park on either side nor is it particularly steep as it now sits. Vertical reinforcements on either side wouldn't be out of the question either.
-gbinlansing suggested that Frandor have more trees and grass to break up the parking lots and you take that as a suggestion Frandor should be more like Eastwood as a whole, I'm not sure how you misunderstood his post so completely.
-The drain project will not cost $280 million, that's the cost of the Red Cedar development. As far as I know there has not been a final number on the cost of the drain project, I believe they were saying somewhere around $60 million at one point.
-They're not paving over 300 acres, the entire Red Cedar site is only about 60 acres and they will be developing 32 acres of that, not all of which will be paved.
-The internet is full of civil and informative forums that remain that way because of a mutually respectful community of like-minded people with vigilant moderators as a fail safe. I have no interest in seeing this forum become any less civil. It's not terribly difficult to make a well reasoned, informed and reasonably polite argument be it positive, negative or neutral. You've complained about this project in a general sense while offering no specific critiques and no solutions or ideas short of just letting the land return to nature.
As I read through your posts more I see you're treading the line of personal attacks. Why don't you think before you type?
Comments
Big baby, but at least I'm not boring.....
Also, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from making judgements about other people and what their background is or what they are/aren't commenting on. Someone who works in urban planning should know that it is a process that must require input from everyone in the community.
This forum should be a constructive place for us to share news, ideas, and commentary on Lansing developments. Let's all try to keep it constructive and positive.
This is NOT urban planning, this is an online forum. Have you been to another online forum?? This is incredibly civil by comparison. But I'm starting to find all this etiquette advice/rules insulting and suffocating. It eliminates more discussion then it opens up.
And several people have now gone after me personally (assuming I'm an urban planner, or even a professional) WHILE AT THE SAME TIME telling me not to judge other people. Feels like you are just standing up for eachother....or the 'regulars'......at the expense of some hyper-opinionated and pretty-obnoxious weirdo. Well, there are more people like me out there, so grow up and start learning to DEAL with it like adults. Not by taking on some condescending moderator tone.
Thank you maybe you need to take a break. Honestly, I am have not "gone after you", and it was your comment that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, big babies etc., that while I may have misunderstood your point of view on the environmental implications of this project, I do not think to call anyone an idiot on this forum for any reason is appropriate in any way and brings unnecessary bad feelings and animosity to a quite innocent discussion of and opinions about growth in our community. Actually, it is just such posts that are childish and boring. This will be my last response to MJ on this issue. But please feel free to go on and on how you are being mistreated and misunderstood least I am accused of suffocating your voice here. I just won't be responding you.
Okay, you did misunderstand me in one way, I meant that to read "I am a big baby, but at least I'm not boring." That's called self-deprecation, for your square ass. It's used to open oneself up to insult or question, as a way of signifying that EVEN if I'm ranting about something, or speaking overly authoratively, or aggressively, or whatever....that I'm self-aware enough and humble enough to acknowledge it for what it is and hope/ask that you forgive my BS and pay attention to the more important content of what I'm saying.
Regardless, I leave you in peace. Now go in peace, to love and serve......
Thanks for not insulting my square ass. Stop putting up BS and I'll forgive you. Peace to your "hip' ass as well!
We probably won't know that until Lindemann submits his plans, or if Sabatoa could follow-up in his correspondance. There hasn't been much talk of the drain project in the media at least for a few years now, unlike Red Cedar Renaissance.
I was referring to the Red Cedar Renaissance project, not the drain project. For example, on top of the plinth it would be nice if we had some rain gardens etc.
@MJ Your multiple posts, use of all caps, condescension and overall attitude doesn't contribute anything positive to this discussion. Continue this I will become a loud voice pushing to have removed from this forum. We've went by years without dealing with these childish antics. We need more voices here so I hate to discourage anyone from posting but this has gotten out of hand.
There's a lot wrong in your last series of posts, I'll make note of what I can:
-Lindemann isn't necessarily lying about the lack of taxpayer money going to this project, as you yourself later point out this drain project will be financed through tax capture of this development and other properties within the drain district. It's sort of true this is money that would otherwise be going elsewhere though.
-As others have pointed out he also didn't say anything about a 25' waterfall, he said there would be 25 waterfalls. I don't expect any of these waterfalls to be anything noteworthy in and of itself.
-There's plenty of room to make the sledding hill in Ranney Park taller. The slope doesn't quite go to the edge of the park on either side nor is it particularly steep as it now sits. Vertical reinforcements on either side wouldn't be out of the question either.
-gbinlansing suggested that Frandor have more trees and grass to break up the parking lots and you take that as a suggestion Frandor should be more like Eastwood as a whole, I'm not sure how you misunderstood his post so completely.
-The drain project will not cost $280 million, that's the cost of the Red Cedar development. As far as I know there has not been a final number on the cost of the drain project, I believe they were saying somewhere around $60 million at one point.
-They're not paving over 300 acres, the entire Red Cedar site is only about 60 acres and they will be developing 32 acres of that, not all of which will be paved.
-The internet is full of civil and informative forums that remain that way because of a mutually respectful community of like-minded people with vigilant moderators as a fail safe. I have no interest in seeing this forum become any less civil. It's not terribly difficult to make a well reasoned, informed and reasonably polite argument be it positive, negative or neutral. You've complained about this project in a general sense while offering no specific critiques and no solutions or ideas short of just letting the land return to nature.
As I read through your posts more I see you're treading the line of personal attacks. Why don't you think before you type?