Yeah, I agree with your whole comment. The speed limit needs to be lowered and we were very lucky there were no casualties.
Changing Cedar and Larch to two-way would help in lowering the speed limit, and adding in protected bike lanes along Michigan Ave would also give a nice road diet to help people think slower speeds.
This corner, and at Larch there should be some sort of pedestrian protection. Has anyone ever considered making these street two way again. I would guess not, but our downtown area has changed a lot since these one way street were made that way, it is becoming a neighborhood with people living there, and could be far more friendly to people without really causing traffic problems.
I hate, hate, hate Cedar and Larch as a pedestrian. Not only do people drive fast, but they don't look for pedestrians when they turn. It's very unpleasant. It could be a coincidence, but not many businesses do well between those two roads. On both Grand River and Michigan you've got urban business blocks that really underperform. Lansing Brewing Company is the big exception, though most seem to drive to it.
MLK south of the Grand River also needs pedestrian bridges or something in spots. Really hurts the walkability of the surrounding neighborhoods.
Are those state-controlled roads? I have been a broken record in East Lansing about the stupid-obvious need for pedestrian improvements along certain stretches of Michigan Avenue. Have gotten some nice talk back, but if anything have actually seen the state treat the road even more as a higher-speed auto-throughway as time has gone on.
Yes, all of these are state-controlled highways, which explains their function. Cedar/Larch is part of a business loop route that that starts at I-96 on the south side connecting back up with I-96 northwest of the city. Let's just say that MDOT isn't the most attentive department of state. In my mind, the city would fight to take back possession of these roads. But with cities already struggling to keep up what they have, it is often a non-starter.
The mayoral candidates need to be pressured to take a position on this, but this would require some advocacy group, and it really should have started months and months ago. Short of that the other issue is to simply advocate for more pressure to be applied from the city on MDOT like they did on Saginaw Street to get the bike lane. The only reason that ended up happening is because Councilwoman Jessica York stayed on MDOT, but unfortunately, she's retiring this year.
Still, I guess we could push her to start the same kind of process she pushed for Saginaw Street, which got MDOT to formally re-envision the road, which is the start of seeing what they could do to it. I'd suggest you all contact/email council about at least studying converting the Cedar/Larch corridor to something more pedestrian-friendly.
Here is Jessica's email (jessica.yorko@lansingmi.gov); she seems to be really attentive and fairly quick to get back to constituents, and she's our main transit advocate on council. Then you have Carol Wood (carol.wood@lansingmi.gov) who I've talked to about at least getting a pedestrian crossing on Cedar in between Saginaw and Shiwassee for the senior citizens at Riverfront Towers after a resident was killed trying to cross the street there months ago. She'll always get back to you. Finally, for good measure, you should probably contact the council president Patricia Spitzley (patricia.spitzley@lansingmi.gov) since all this would have to go through her to begin with.
There are hundreds of new residents down there in just the past decade, so this is eventually going to become a big issue. I just want it to become one before more people are hurt. I couldn't help but think of the kind of tragedy we'd have happened had the Beer Grotto been open and this happened later in the day. Same with when the Nut House has outdoor events on the corner.
I do not know it there is enough room at these four corner intersections, and I know it's all "euro" and all but traffic circles or rotary's slow but generally do not stop traffic and are much safer for pedestrians and bikes. People live on streets like MLK and Saginaw, I always think of what that would be like, not too nice I would think. They slow the traffic on State Highways through small towns so way not in our neighborhoods? It would be a good subject to bring up during the local elections.
Modern roundabouts by their design require motorists to slow down typically to less than 25 mph (40 km/h), and preferably 15 mph (25 km/h) to proceed through the intersection. The literature shows that, given a properly designed single-lane roundabout, motorist and pedestrian safety is almost always improved when compared to conventional intersections. Results regarding cyclist safety are somewhat mixed. Roundabouts have fewer conflict points and lower speeds compared to conventional intersections, resulting in a significant overall reduction in the severity of crashes for all users, although the frequency of some crashes may increase. Multi-lane roundabouts present some challenges to pedestrians, thus reducing the safety effects that roundabouts provide.
Roundabouts: Mixed Results for Pedestrian and Cyclist Safety
SOUTHEAST, Mich.—Beloved by roadway engineers for both their ability to handle large traffic volumes and their low construction and maintenance costs, roundabouts are on the increase. Oakland County leads the region with 24 presently in operation, and dozens more are in place or under construction in Macomb, Livingston, Washtenaw and Monroe.
When roundabouts are placed appropriately, they increase traffic flow and provide motorists with well-documented safety benefits. However, for non-motorized users -- bicyclists and pedestrians, and especially those with disabilities -- roundabouts present unique challenges to safety and accessibility.
Good for reducing automobile-to-automobile crashes, but their benefits for pedestrians are often oversold or lied about.
They seem to work better on neighborhood streets. I don't think a traffic circle on these busy one-way streets would change much. More simply, at least one of these streets needs to be turned two-way. Do what they did with parts of Shiawassee and Kalamazoo is all they really need to do, a thru-lane in each direction with a center turn lane and then either bike lanes or street parking lanes on the side. The primary problem is the one-way nature.
I will say that Cedar and Larch do seem to carry a good amount of traffic during the day. It'd be interesting to see projections on where that traffic would go if the city made those two-way streets.
Grand Avenue is another interesting road to think about. That street and all of the parking lots along it definitely hurt the interaction between downtown and the river at the street level. That stretch could use some more placemaking. I actually think the east side of Grand River is planned out pretty well. I think if you fixed up the situation with Grand Ave you'd really have something special.
I have thought about this area as well. I think surface lot owners should be required to fence and landscape all downtown lots. Empty or unused black top should have to be pulled up and replaced with grass after a certain time empty . Make developing the land more attractive that just sitting on it. I could see removing or replacing the pedestrian bridge that darkens the whole block and is really dated and ugly. Replace the bridge with something really cool, something that people will want to visit and walk over, or create some sort of covered walk way across the Michigan Ave bridge from the Raddison to the Lansing Center. Make Wentworth Park a real garden, even a winter garden house there would help connect the street to the river, creating a "place" or destination year round on Grand Avenue. Amazon is building a really cool winter garden in a city sized space in front of their building in Seattle, and London built a very nice green underground stop in a smaller space.
Noticed this driving by this evening. I can't remember if they already have a tenant or not, though I can't imagine GG putting money into if they didn't.
Comments
Yeah, I agree with your whole comment. The speed limit needs to be lowered and we were very lucky there were no casualties.
Changing Cedar and Larch to two-way would help in lowering the speed limit, and adding in protected bike lanes along Michigan Ave would also give a nice road diet to help people think slower speeds.
This corner, and at Larch there should be some sort of pedestrian protection. Has anyone ever considered making these street two way again. I would guess not, but our downtown area has changed a lot since these one way street were made that way, it is becoming a neighborhood with people living there, and could be far more friendly to people without really causing traffic problems.
I hate, hate, hate Cedar and Larch as a pedestrian. Not only do people drive fast, but they don't look for pedestrians when they turn. It's very unpleasant. It could be a coincidence, but not many businesses do well between those two roads. On both Grand River and Michigan you've got urban business blocks that really underperform. Lansing Brewing Company is the big exception, though most seem to drive to it.
MLK south of the Grand River also needs pedestrian bridges or something in spots. Really hurts the walkability of the surrounding neighborhoods.
Are those state-controlled roads? I have been a broken record in East Lansing about the stupid-obvious need for pedestrian improvements along certain stretches of Michigan Avenue. Have gotten some nice talk back, but if anything have actually seen the state treat the road even more as a higher-speed auto-throughway as time has gone on.
Yes, all of these are state-controlled highways, which explains their function. Cedar/Larch is part of a business loop route that that starts at I-96 on the south side connecting back up with I-96 northwest of the city. Let's just say that MDOT isn't the most attentive department of state. In my mind, the city would fight to take back possession of these roads. But with cities already struggling to keep up what they have, it is often a non-starter.
The mayoral candidates need to be pressured to take a position on this, but this would require some advocacy group, and it really should have started months and months ago. Short of that the other issue is to simply advocate for more pressure to be applied from the city on MDOT like they did on Saginaw Street to get the bike lane. The only reason that ended up happening is because Councilwoman Jessica York stayed on MDOT, but unfortunately, she's retiring this year.
Still, I guess we could push her to start the same kind of process she pushed for Saginaw Street, which got MDOT to formally re-envision the road, which is the start of seeing what they could do to it. I'd suggest you all contact/email council about at least studying converting the Cedar/Larch corridor to something more pedestrian-friendly.
Here is Jessica's email (jessica.yorko@lansingmi.gov); she seems to be really attentive and fairly quick to get back to constituents, and she's our main transit advocate on council. Then you have Carol Wood (carol.wood@lansingmi.gov) who I've talked to about at least getting a pedestrian crossing on Cedar in between Saginaw and Shiwassee for the senior citizens at Riverfront Towers after a resident was killed trying to cross the street there months ago. She'll always get back to you. Finally, for good measure, you should probably contact the council president Patricia Spitzley (patricia.spitzley@lansingmi.gov) since all this would have to go through her to begin with.
There are hundreds of new residents down there in just the past decade, so this is eventually going to become a big issue. I just want it to become one before more people are hurt. I couldn't help but think of the kind of tragedy we'd have happened had the Beer Grotto been open and this happened later in the day. Same with when the Nut House has outdoor events on the corner.
I do not know it there is enough room at these four corner intersections, and I know it's all "euro" and all but traffic circles or rotary's slow but generally do not stop traffic and are much safer for pedestrians and bikes. People live on streets like MLK and Saginaw, I always think of what that would be like, not too nice I would think. They slow the traffic on State Highways through small towns so way not in our neighborhoods? It would be a good subject to bring up during the local elections.
Roundabouts have mixed results.
Good for reducing automobile-to-automobile crashes, but their benefits for pedestrians are often oversold or lied about.
They seem to work better on neighborhood streets. I don't think a traffic circle on these busy one-way streets would change much. More simply, at least one of these streets needs to be turned two-way. Do what they did with parts of Shiawassee and Kalamazoo is all they really need to do, a thru-lane in each direction with a center turn lane and then either bike lanes or street parking lanes on the side. The primary problem is the one-way nature.
I will say that Cedar and Larch do seem to carry a good amount of traffic during the day. It'd be interesting to see projections on where that traffic would go if the city made those two-way streets.
Grand Avenue is another interesting road to think about. That street and all of the parking lots along it definitely hurt the interaction between downtown and the river at the street level. That stretch could use some more placemaking. I actually think the east side of Grand River is planned out pretty well. I think if you fixed up the situation with Grand Ave you'd really have something special.
I have thought about this area as well. I think surface lot owners should be required to fence and landscape all downtown lots. Empty or unused black top should have to be pulled up and replaced with grass after a certain time empty . Make developing the land more attractive that just sitting on it. I could see removing or replacing the pedestrian bridge that darkens the whole block and is really dated and ugly. Replace the bridge with something really cool, something that people will want to visit and walk over, or create some sort of covered walk way across the Michigan Ave bridge from the Raddison to the Lansing Center. Make Wentworth Park a real garden, even a winter garden house there would help connect the street to the river, creating a "place" or destination year round on Grand Avenue. Amazon is building a really cool winter garden in a city sized space in front of their building in Seattle, and London built a very nice green underground stop in a smaller space.