I shop and eat downtown when I can, when I get the money I plan to move downtown, and I just got a new job downtown, so I consider that a decent track record.
Being born in Lansing and a lifelong Lansing resident I feel compelled to comment on this topic. Although I agree that this project will be a nice addition to downtown Lansing, I will not be patronizing any of the retailers who end up leasing space here. This seems to be the only recourse that I have to show my displeasure with the way that the project will be built. I agree will Concernedtaxpayer that this project should have been built using Lansing construction trades and not by contractors from differant areas. I do try and support local businesses when I can and I will continue to do so. But it seems that the only way to show the local politicians and developers my disopproval of their methods of giving work to non-local contractors is to withhold my money from their pockets. What really amazes me is how they all talk about putting "LANSING FIRST" at election time but as soon as they are in office they do what is best for them and not the city. I think that they forget that the city is made up of the residents and not buildings or figures on a spreadsheet. It seems they put the bottom line before the residents. Well, when there is is no-one left in the city to pay taxes, we will have a city that looks more like Flint than Grand Rapids. I try to buy products that are made in the U.S.A. when I can and if they are made locally that is even better. People need to wake up. They think that all of this outsourcing of Lansing work doesn't affect them. Until they are calling MARVIN or driving to Grand Rapids every day because their company found out it was cheaper to lease space over there.
Being someone who is persuing a development project just around the corner from Stadium District I have to disagree with this "only use Lansing companies" philosophy. The main (if not only) options for a project this size in Lansing are Christman, Granger and Clark, I was told that if I were to use them for my project it may not be feasable, even if it was it would eat into profits far too much. Thats besides the fact that all these GC's are used to larger, more expensive and typically non-residential developments. The only other option I know of off the top of my head is Kincaid Design/build, which is who I will be using. But if my project happens, it will be Kincaid's biggest project, which is still only about half the size of Stadium District. Fryling is the best choice for mid-sized mixed use projects, if the Stadium District had been much smaller they could have used a local, if it was larger they could have probably used a local. I really think you have to understand that developers of urban projects are running on tight budgets and they absolutely have to pinch pennies wherever possible.
While I do understand that Developers do have to "pinch pennies", you must understand that we must also "pinch pennies" when we chose where to spend our money. From reading your last post you seemed very well informed until I read your earlier posts. You stated that you feel sorry for the construction workers who had to do so much traveling. So much so that you chose another profession. Well how do you feel about all of the Lansing tradesmen who will have to travel this summer because the work that they should be doing was given to an out of town contractor. You also stated in an earlier post that Fryling would most likely be using subs from the Lansing area. This is totally false. Currenty, all trades on this project are from out of town. You also stated that that all the work would be done by union tradesmen, just from a differant area. Also totally false. There are no union trades currently on this project.
It is good that you and Concerned are bringing these topics to the forum. I think we all appreciate the conversation. I do hope that we (Lansing) can be self sufficient in the future, but our state is in need of being self sufficient. I think we should support the work that developers are doing to try and move residents back to our inner cities, and help the economy of Lansing.
The residents and businesses within the Stadium District will improve the economy and condition of this part of Lansing, and I think that is great.
It is very hard for a city when giving tax credits to a developer to require a developer use contractors from a designated area. The developer should have some freedom in choosing its employees, if it didn't it then the city would practically be the developer for the project.
That would be fine Jared, in todays slumping economy you would have contractors within town clambering to get on the bid sheet. I know of towns all over the state that do it. What a way to support your community and I don't see why strings can't be attached to an agreement when tax credits are being given out.
I have worked on smaller projects then this for Granger. The CATA building downtown for example is much smaller than this and Granger was the GC. Christman is in the middle of dorm re-models out to MSU which would be considered residential multi-family. No different than this building. And I'm sure that such a high profile building as this is that either Christman, Clark, and Granger would have be more than happy to do the work, with a competive bid.
As I have always said you get what you pay for and by hiring someone out of town they have no ownership in this building. Which will show in their craftsmenship and they will cut corners where ever needed to get under the bottom line. How easy do you think it will be to get them back here for warranty issues when this job is over? Do you think they will jump right into their service vans and run right over from Grand Rapids to fix a hinge, a leaking faucet, no heat in a unit, a leaking roof, air conditioning that won't work or a boiler that has gone down. Most companies will state that they have 5 year warranties on labor and materiales installed. Are you going to put up with this for 5 years? You'll be lucky to get them back in two days.
Lmich, I'm not making any speculations to the project. I've been in the construction business for 15 years and have seen guys with the best intentions have problems or equipment fail. I would want someone whos local, who can come in a snap when something goes wrong and maybe they'll get someone locally for a service contract after the warranties run out. But during that time I have to rely on someone on the other side of the state fixing any problems that come up.
Do you honestly think that a construction worker who has worked twelve hours the day before and has a one hour drive to and from work eventually doesn't develope some lackadaisial tendencies. A guy gets burned out in a hurry, I've seen it many times.
Just one of many positve points to hiring local contractors.
LMich, I'm happy to see that we at least agree on somethings. If we can buy from our neighbors we should try. We're all trying to make in this now trying economy and you'd be surprised how many local contractors we have that are more than capable of doing this work. Hell, thats what has made this town what it is. I've got a small list of local GCs that would be more then willing to look at anything you have.
Comments
It is good that you and Concerned are bringing these topics to the forum. I think we all appreciate the conversation. I do hope that we (Lansing) can be self sufficient in the future, but our state is in need of being self sufficient. I think we should support the work that developers are doing to try and move residents back to our inner cities, and help the economy of Lansing.
The residents and businesses within the Stadium District will improve the economy and condition of this part of Lansing, and I think that is great.
It is very hard for a city when giving tax credits to a developer to require a developer use contractors from a designated area. The developer should have some freedom in choosing its employees, if it didn't it then the city would practically be the developer for the project.
I have worked on smaller projects then this for Granger. The CATA building downtown for example is much smaller than this and Granger was the GC. Christman is in the middle of dorm re-models out to MSU which would be considered residential multi-family. No different than this building. And I'm sure that such a high profile building as this is that either Christman, Clark, and Granger would have be more than happy to do the work, with a competive bid.
As I have always said you get what you pay for and by hiring someone out of town they have no ownership in this building. Which will show in their craftsmenship and they will cut corners where ever needed to get under the bottom line. How easy do you think it will be to get them back here for warranty issues when this job is over? Do you think they will jump right into their service vans and run right over from Grand Rapids to fix a hinge, a leaking faucet, no heat in a unit, a leaking roof, air conditioning that won't work or a boiler that has gone down. Most companies will state that they have 5 year warranties on labor and materiales installed. Are you going to put up with this for 5 years? You'll be lucky to get them back in two days.
Do you honestly think that a construction worker who has worked twelve hours the day before and has a one hour drive to and from work eventually doesn't develope some lackadaisial tendencies. A guy gets burned out in a hurry, I've seen it many times.
Just one of many positve points to hiring local contractors.
Christman Co.
327-5341
Granger Co.
393-1670
Clark Co.
316-7179
Nielson Co.
699-2101
Moore Trosper Co.
694-6310
Kares Co.
645-2661